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Dance Accompaniment: Dancing in the Dark
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srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
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 Dance Accompaniment: Dancing in the Dark
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I’ve recently started accompanying a dance class, and while there are a number of issues that are in various stages of being worked out, there’s one thing that’s particularly vexing to me, and that’s keeping a steady tempo. Obviously, regular practice with the metronome is the best way to internalize solid rhythm and tempo in one’s playing, but I see that as more of a preventative medicine measure. I’m curious if there are things that I can do when my or the dancer’s or the room’s tempo starts heading in unwanted directions.
I’ve only done this a handful of times so far, but the tendency thus far seems to be a speeding up. In another thread Andy (ToqueNW) told a story about “driving the tempo” and I’m guessing that that term defines what I’m talking about. Sometimes I can feel myself doing it, sometimes it feels like the dancers are doing it and I’m being pulled along. I wonder if I, when the later happens, I should stick to my guns and try to reign in the tempo? It sort of feels like I’m fighting against the dancers when I do that, but I am there to keep the beat right? (I apologize if this all sounds hopelessly naïve and clueless, but, well…..)
Additionally, these are all raw beginners, so there are a lot of loud, errant stomps that come out of nowhere and throw a wrench into my own best efforts to keep things going along steadily. There’s really nothing to be done about that other than just deal with it and learn to adapt. I imagine that, for the most part, these sorts of things just get worked out in time, but, aside from just keeping at it and getting more experience under my belt is there anything else I can do to address this issue, any trade secrets I need to know about?
Thanks,
Adam
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Date Dec. 13 2008 20:10:11
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xirdneH_imiJ
Posts: 1900
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton
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RE: Dance Accompaniment: Keeping A S... (in reply to srshea)
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there are no secrets, there's interaction between the dancers and yourself - and between you and your guitar (and feet!)...
much depends on the dancer and his/her capability - some dancers are good but still don't seem to be able to keep a perfect tempo and that's when the job becomes more difficult for you as no dancer will ever admit they're off by even a little...if he/she asks for you to keep a steady tempo what you do is NOT pay attention to their feet but instead you concentrate on your own and your music - this contradicts the fact that you do have to pay attention to the dancers, but not in expense of the tempo which rules the flamenco world...
so basically you're a metronome as well as a guitarist...
but you'll also be asked to boss the tempo when it comes to slowdowns and speedups, that's almost entirely up to you, but the dancer will show you what he/she wants, you just have to be aware of that or you'll be yelled at...
but ultimately when it's a dance performance, the rule is that the dancer is the boss, even if he/she screws up, you have to do your best to follow them, the same goes for palmas...which is found strange at first because it thought the palmeros were the most important, but no, it's the dancers' feet always, even if you can't hear them well or at all...as time passes and spend several hours a week watching feet, you'll be able to catch the tempo by just looking at the feet movement...of course it takes time and practice as everything else...
to sum it up, about the steady tempo, just turn your head away, feel your feet beating the rhythm and try to be as punctual as possible, the others will eventually follow you, remember, the students are struggling even more than you do...and if you feel something's really wrong you can always talk to the teacher about it (not in front of the students or you might regret that :))
i spent two years playing for a dancer who was competent in every way but didn't have a really good sense of rhythm, that can ruin it for you but you get used to that...now i'm playing for an excellent dancer/singer and having lots of fun with the weirdest variations to compáses...
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Date Dec. 14 2008 1:52:29
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Ricardo
Posts: 14889
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Dance Accompaniment: Keeping A S... (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: xirdneH_imiJ
there are no secrets, there's interaction between the dancers and yourself - and between you and your guitar (and feet!)...
much depends on the dancer and his/her capability - some dancers are good but still don't seem to be able to keep a perfect tempo and that's when the job becomes more difficult for you as no dancer will ever admit they're off by even a little...if he/she asks for you to keep a steady tempo what you do is NOT pay attention to their feet but instead you concentrate on your own and your music - this contradicts the fact that you do have to pay attention to the dancers, but not in expense of the tempo which rules the flamenco world...
so basically you're a metronome as well as a guitarist...
but you'll also be asked to boss the tempo when it comes to slowdowns and speedups, that's almost entirely up to you, but the dancer will show you what he/she wants, you just have to be aware of that or you'll be yelled at...
but ultimately when it's a dance performance, the rule is that the dancer is the boss, even if he/she screws up, you have to do your best to follow them, the same goes for palmas...which is found strange at first because it thought the palmeros were the most important, but no, it's the dancers' feet always, even if you can't hear them well or at all...as time passes and spend several hours a week watching feet, you'll be able to catch the tempo by just looking at the feet movement...of course it takes time and practice as everything else...
to sum it up, about the steady tempo, just turn your head away, feel your feet beating the rhythm and try to be as punctual as possible, the others will eventually follow you, remember, the students are struggling even more than you do...and if you feel something's really wrong you can always talk to the teacher about it (not in front of the students or you might regret that :))
i spent two years playing for a dancer who was competent in every way but didn't have a really good sense of rhythm, that can ruin it for you but you get used to that...now i'm playing for an excellent dancer/singer and having lots of fun with the weirdest variations to compáses...
Well said, I second all of that. There are two things that can help also. It is very good that you are NOTICING the speeding up, because a lot of people don't. Once you sense a move up, you need to hold them back, assuming it is their fault (if you notice speed ups and they dont' then it probably is their fault). Not to the point of dragging, but you need to stay on track. The first way to have help, is insist that the teacher or some other person do palmas (again assuming they can hold it well), and your job suddenly gets much easier. The second thing, if you don't have the luxury of a palmero to help, you need to get a good amplification so you are WAY louder than everyone so you can easily keep everyone on your tempo (again assuming you are really solid).
Hope that helps. If this is encouraging, Tati was doing a synchopated step in rehearsal that gave the impression of her speeding up a bit, the palmeros (singers) moved up a notch and we all did. She yelled at them. Of course she only needed to do that once, on the second pass we realized as a group she was absolutely right, she was not going anywhere with the tempo it was just us as a group that were feeling it wrong. (And I am talking about hair splitting minute incraments of tempo increase). So this problem of tempo goes right up to the top level, and people you might work with regularly. Best thing is never argue or point fingers, just try suggestions and pay attention. On a side note, I have often suggested to a flamenco group of dancers (more than say 3 or 4 doing the same loud stomping steps) that we should use a drum machine very loud to tighten up the group feeling. I think practicing that way really helps everyone....but so far I have not been able to convince anyone. 
Ricardo
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Dec. 14 2008 6:45:52
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srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
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RE: Dance Accompaniment: Keeping A S... (in reply to srshea)
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Thanks a lot, dudes. All very good advice, all very clear, and all very helpful. I think the gentleman from Hungary hit the nail on the head of my problem with the mention of sometimes turning away from the dancers and concentrating on your own playing. I think I’m trying to do too much at once, too soon. I’m trying to pay perfect and total attention to the teacher’s instructions, and the dancer’s steps, and my own foot tapping, and the articulation of the rhythm with my right hand, and the chord change that’s coming up, and, and, and. It’s all a little to much for me to balance properly, at this early date. I definitely won't be doing anyone any favors if I can’t hold a steady rhythm, so for now I think my best approach is to put a little more focus into my own deal, figure out how to get into human-metronome mode, and go from there.
The blame for speeding up is probably spread pretty evenly. There’s my own speeding up, which is of course my own issue to deal with, but I know the dancers are also doing it too. As I mentioned, they’re all beginners, so I think what’s happening is that when they’re shown a new set of steps they start out very slowly and awkwardly and then, after a few minutes, once they start getting the hang of it and start getting more comfortable with the steps, there’s just a natural tendency to start speeding up. So I think that it’s at that point that I need to be aware of any changes in tempo and work on keeping things on an even keel.
And at the end of the day I have to admit that it’s time to get a little more serious with the metronome, which for me has always kind of been like dental floss. I do know how important it is, and I do use it regularly. But I’d be lying if I said that I did after every meal.
So, back to work. Click, click, click……
Thanks again,
Adam
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Date Dec. 15 2008 10:38:49
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Ricardo
Posts: 14889
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Dance Accompaniment: Keeping A S... (in reply to XXX)
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quote:
Sure, but doesnt a dancer also profit from a rythmically good guitarist?
Ha ha, you would think? It really depends on the dancer and his or her personality and level. Some dancers don't appreciate that, and prefer to mold the guitarist to their liking. Some don't have good enough timing to even appreciate the subtle difference between a steady tempo or one that might "chase" their feet closer. But on the other hand, a very high level dancer knows how to use a guitarist that has good timing, but might not necessarily "profit" from that. Actually they end up teaching the guitarist. I have always tried to latch on to people that had superior timing and try to learn from them...whether they were dancers, drummers, or singers.
When I do a guitar solo, I prefer an accompanist, be it rhythm guitar or palmas or cajon, not try to "follow" me, but rather I feel much more comfortable if they ignore me and hold down a steady beat. I can imagine there are dancers that feel the same.
Ricardo
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Dec. 15 2008 18:36:38
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srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
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RE: Dance Accompaniment: Dancing in ... (in reply to srshea)
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So, after the biggest snow storm ‘round these parts in fifty years and two national holidays put the kibosh on three consecutive weeks of dance classes I showed up last night to find the place totally dark. Warm temperatures and heavy rains melted all that snow and some high winds came along for the ride, so we’ve had flooding and general mayhem about, which included some random blackouts around town, which affected the ten-block radius surrounding the Eagles Hall last night. I figured the whole deal would be cancelled, but we ended up scrounging a few candles left over from a New Year’s party and went on with the class by candlelight until the lights came back a half hour later.
So, lessons learned:
1- The show really must go on.
2- It’s hard to play when it’s dark and you can’t see your hands at all!
Still just strumming super-basic compas over and over, so my primary objectives are still focusing on keeping a steady tempo and continually balancing my attention between what I’m playing and what’s going on out on the floor, which is getting easier and starting to feel more natural. It’s turning out to be an interesting exercise in experiential learning because at times I can actually see the changes in my perception and understanding of what’s going on as they occur, on the spot. At times it kind of feels like I’m watching myself in slow motion and I can see the back and forth between my getting lost and frustrated and then suddenly “getting it” and getting back on track. I guess this is really just the basic process of figuring out and learning something on your own through active trial and error, rather than having it explained to you or otherwise being show how to do it. All pretty standard stuff, but it’s interesting and exciting for me, anyway….
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Date Jan. 9 2009 17:48:44
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they have to learn sooner or later ..relying on you for theyr compas its just hiding the problem for a while and it will not do them any services in the long run 
Sure enough the issue arose where the dancers started getting all janky with the rhythm. I turned on the metronome and invited them to visit reality. I think all of them went out and bought a metronome. Metronome's for Christmas, they make great gifts. Put a bow on them and hand them out to all the musicians you know. 
and start over
