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Vals-Bulería Question
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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 Vals-Bulería Question
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Hi
It's by Moraíto, on the Encuentro DVD it's just called Vals-Bulería, on Morao Y Oro it's called Mercado Persa I think.
It sounds like Bulería to me, or at least a Bulería composition, or a collection of falsetas that play with the Bulería rhythm, although he doesn't actually play the rhythm with the typical chord sequence (in this key it would be F# to G and back again, or F# to G to A, back to G, and back to F# again).
What I don't get is the "Vals" bit, I don't know if I'm missing something here, but I can't actually hear anything strongly in 3's that I would expect from a Vals/Waltz.
It sounds to me like the rhythm is very strongly Jerez Bulería, the sort of 6 rhythm that you get with Bulería sung with just palmas accompaniment.
What does anyone else think/hear, and can anyone explain the "Vals" bit please?
mark
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Date Aug. 25 2008 8:24:06
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Ricardo
Posts: 14897
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Vals-Bulería Question (in reply to mark indigo)
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It is simply a term used to distinguish a composition that is BASED on the rhythm of buleria, but is more "classically" structured, rather than an improvised bag of falsetas mixed with compas strumming, like the normal palo is interpreted on guitar. There is nothing wrong with calling it "composicion por buleria" or "Cancion por buleria", or "fantasia por buleria", or simply "buleria". Some pieces I feel fall into a similar category: "Impetu" by Escudero, "Trafalgar" by Nuñez, etc. The equivalent in cante would be certain cuples, boleros, and other "songs" that are interpreted and accompanied por buleria, but obviously not the standard short improvised letras. Make sense?
Ricardo
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Aug. 26 2008 7:25:30
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: Vals-Bulería Question (in reply to Ron.M)
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quote:
IMO real "vals" part starts at 3:40 (in album version).
oh yeah, thanks Ilia, i can hear that now....
quote:
I have it.
thanks Anders for the offer - i have the cd version and the encuentro dvd & book - maybe you have another version or tab of the cd version?
quote:
IMO you should always know, if you are in the 12-5 part of a compas or 6-11, even if you are playing 6s or so, so that you dont do the remates on the first part. In dance they do sometimes 2 compases with sixes, and then do regular remate kind of things during 6 8 10 of the 2nd compas.
Hi Deniz, i have a different opinion, and experience of this. I try not to count 'cos it puts me off, as my head is telling me one thing and my ears something else, and you do get "odd" sixes (ie that end on what would be beat 4, wait or golpe on beat 5, come in on 6 and plays as if it were 12) in cante, in dance and in guitar falsetas.
The bulerias on Camaron's cd "Castillo de Arena" are literally littered with odd sixes, listen to the first one, "Samara", every verse of cante ends on beat 4 (golpe or wait on 5, and and the guitar starts again on 6 and plays as if it were 12). try clapping strict 12's through that, you can't, it's just so wrong! sure, parts of it are twelves, but you have to stop counting and just go with the cante and the rhythm. "Como Castillo Arena" has some too
I have accompanied buleria dance (from jerez, of course) with odd sixes, where you get a 6, another 6, and then a "6,8,10" ending which is "really" 12,2,4, and then after that you carry on with a standard compas 12,3,6,8,10, same thing as with the cante
I play a Gerardo Nunez falseta with odd sixes, i couldn't tell you which six is "odd", it just sort of has a section with an odd number of sixes at the end, i think some of Tomatito's Encuentro stuff is same, maybe the second falseta, i haven't checked...
Moraito's bulerias "Buleriando" on "Morao y Oro", same thing, first falseta/intro ends on beat "4" and the 3rd falseta starts on an odd six! (ie he plays 12,2,4 as if it was 6,8,10, and then starts the falseta on 6 as if it were 12)
Personally i found this 6 thing very strange at first as was locked into the 12,3,6,8,10 thing, but then listened to jerez bulerias a palo seco and it starts to make sense, the palmas rhythm in sixes, and after a while it's real easy and i don't count (unless you call "tum-tee-tum-tee-tum or tum-tickee-tum-ta-tum-tum" counting LOL)
quote:
Make sense?
Yeah, thanks Ricardo, that's more or less what i thought what was going on, i just wasn't sure...
great response/s, maybe i should re-post my thread about non-trad keys in standard tuning...!
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Date Aug. 26 2008 14:54:28
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