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indirac

Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 31 2003

new to flamenco

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and to flamenco guitar in general. There are no teachers near where I live, so I'm unfortunately having to try to figure things out on my own for the time being. I am coming from playing classical guitar (which I take fairly seriously) as well as some jazz & other ensemble type playing (which is more of a casual interest), so I'm hoping that will ease the learning curve for flamenco a bit.

Since everything I've heard indicates that one really needs a teacher (or to play with dancers/singers) to get the right kind of feeling involved, I've been trying to work mostly on technique (so when I find a teacher I can focus more on feeling/style/etc, the more ephemeral aspects). So, to this end I've been working on picado (with scales), rasgueado (my continuous triplet rasgueado sounds good to me; working on getting the quintuplet c-a-m-i-p in time and up to speed), and golpe*. With respect to the latter, I have found very few exercises on the web. In particular, they all seem to indicate that a golpe tap is usually done when doing a downward strum with the i finger. Can it also be done on a thumbstroke? The reason I ask is this (bear with me, this would take about 10 seconds to show in person but is kind of longwinded to explain here):

I've read that the strong beats in a solearas are 3,6,8,10,12. I also noticed that a simple falseta I picked up one has downward index finger strums on beats 3,6, and 8, which of course facilitates tapping on those strong beats. Now, beat 10 is where the standard E major arpeggio comes at the end of the falseta, right? So if you wanted to tap there, you'd either have to play the arpeggio unconventionally or tap while playing a thumbstroke (which feels unwieldy, especially since I typically play with the a finger right after the thumbstroke). I've found it's easy to change the timing of the arpeggio so that beat 12 falls on a downstroke of the i finger, but haven't found a convenient alteration so that beat 10 does. I'm guessing the answer to this is that the strong beats simply don't always need to be accompanied by golpe? Or there's something more fundamental that I don't understand, perhaps.

~Jeremy

*I'm hoping to buy a student flamenco guitar in the next few months; until then I'm using my cedar top classical, with a post-it note as makeshift golpeador.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2003 19:54:06

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: new to flamenco (in reply to indirac)

The golpes are execute while doing a downward i stroke or a downward p stroke. To practice the golpe with the p, do the golpe first, then the p. Pretty soon you'll be able to do both, but for me the sensation remains of the golpe coming first, although they are simultaneous.

You mentioned that you do a x a m i p rasgeuo, but that's rather unconventional. The x a m i i upstroke is more common.

Good luck! Depending on the budget, I hear the Yamaha flamencos are not bad for the money.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2003 20:40:46

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: new to flamenco (in reply to indirac)

Indirac welcome to the forum and flamenco :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2003 20:50:16

indirac

Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 31 2003

RE: new to flamenco (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Thanks! I'll get right to work on that. Just to be certain, can "downward p stroke" in this context mean just one string, rather than a strum proper?

I guess "x" is used in flamenco rather than "c" to denote the little finger? I'll try to adhere to this if it's the convention. I should've mentioned that the p at the end of x a m i p rasgueado I'm referring to is an upstroke (which I think is neccessary to get the timing right). I'll work on the one you described as well too.

I've heard lots of good things about the entry level Yamaha (forget which one; think it's the CG171F or something like that) which is about $300 from online retailers, so I think that's the one I'll be going with.

Thanks again,
~Jeremy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2003 21:36:51

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: new to flamenco (in reply to indirac)

Jeremy,
yeah, people sometimes use the golpe with the p rest stroke. Also with the p down strum. And remember strums can be two strings, three..whatever. As far as c (chiquito?) versus x... I think you can use either one!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2003 23:34:17

indirac

Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 31 2003

thanks again (no message) (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

zzz

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2003 23:49:55

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: new to flamenco (in reply to indirac)

quote:

ORIGINAL: indirac
I guess "x" is used in flamenco rather than "c" to denote the little finger?

Hi Jeremy. Flamenco adopted the standard PIMA used by classical guitarists
and there is no convention to denote the little finger. Consequently you will find E, S, N, X, C and no doubt a few others I've forgotten used by flamenco guitarists in tuition books and videos.

For my money, C is the most logical, denoting Chico. I don't think X is a good choice (what Spanish word for little finger starts with x?) as X is useful in notation for notating other things eg. golpes or even muted notes.

Good luck with your new found hobby! Where in the world are you, BTW?

Let us know how you get on with that Yamaha, I have my eye on one.

Cheers.

_____________________________

Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2003 11:40:12

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: new to flamenco (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Allow me to add one more - the one I was taught and use. That is lower case m. So I use the following:

P, I, M, A, m

In Spanish "little finger" = meñique

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2003 23:54:43

indirac

Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 31 2003

RE: new to flamenco (in reply to Jon Boyes)

"Where in the world are you, BTW?"

Hanover, New Hampshire. Only until June though; after that I'm not sure (yet)

I've spent a lot of money yet and need to get finances in order, so it probably won't be before next year that I get the yamaha. I'll be sure to post when I do though.

~Jeremy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2003 0:32:04

el ted

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003

RE: new to flamenco (in reply to indirac)

hello jeremy and chaps,
new boy el ted here, if the yamaha you are talking about is the CG171SF, then i've already got one. it cost me £300 up here in sunny hull.
as with all yams it is very well finished and even has a compensated saddle on the third string. the sound is fine, it ain,t going to compete with a reyes, BUT it PLAYS like a flamenco guitar, with a low action and i love it!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 14 2003 10:20:07