Scales and practising

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

Scales and practising

This might interest Miguel amongst others...

I was listening to an interview with Daniel Barenboim the famous pianist/conductor and he mentioned that he never ever practises scales etc.
He said something like "All the technical exercises you can find within the music. I think if you practise soul-less scales, it eventually creeps into your playing."

Also, mentioning another musician, he said something like..
"The guy would practise scales whilst reading the newspaper. To me this is wrong. Practise demands your full attention. It's not worthwhile practising anymore once your concentration has gone."

Interesting..of course that is only his view.

I must say myself though, that I find there are many simple falsetas that can be used to focus on a particular technique, rather than resorting to "systematic" exercises.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2006 16:46:16

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Ron.M)

[Deleted by Admins]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2006 17:44:54

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to Ron.M)

i try to practices scale with soul. it works very well thank you

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2006 17:51:46

carlos soto

Posts: 126
Joined: Oct. 22 2005

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to Ron.M)

I don't understand the people that say practicing scales is useless, I practice scales to know them and once I know well the scale in the guitar I obviously have to learn how to use it, but of course if you don't want to learn the use of a scale and just think of it as an exercise then why learn it.
The soul thing is bulls***, at the beggining you will want to learn the scale and there's no way you are going to show your "soul" learning it...is like saying that a doctor must read a medicine book and show soul in the process, when actually the momemtum of showing the soul is at the momment he's saving a life.
Even if you practice playing only "soulfull" pieces all day, the only true demostration of soul is when you play for others.
Without scales you can't improvise, you can try to stay by ear but you'll never have an understanding of what will sound good or bad in certain chords and part of the beats.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2006 18:05:34

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to duende)

quote:

i try to practices scale with soul. it works very well

Good point Henrik.
Grisha uploaded a fast picado exercise he does, and though it was "non-musical", was very entertaining and humorous in it's virtuosity.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2006 19:46:36

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to Ron.M)

I dont think practising scales robs you of soul.
Thats silly.

Its funny how it takes some people so long to figure out,
that there is no one system, or path to virtuosity.
They're endless.
And each is as valid as the next, if it gets you where
you want to go.

The crazy thing is, people want to beleive there is "a way".
Like if Paco said he practiced standing on his head, i garantee
you there would be thousands of players out there with
the blood rushing into their heads.
They'd end up even more confused then before!

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2006 20:20:56

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to ToddK)

i often stand on one leg in the shower with a bucket on my head playing scales. you wouldn´t belive the progress i´ve made, im cleaner than ever

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2006 21:14:04

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to ToddK)

I think a good challenge IMO would be to play scales with as much soul as you'd put into a concert performance.
Really!
Like folk at acting school having to read out the Telephone Directory as if it was the climax scene of a major play...
It's just an alternative way of getting more control over your medium.

As Todd says, there are hundreds of ways...

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2006 21:45:45

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to Ron.M)

I agree with the idea that there is more than one way to do things. It's funny, but I was on another forum basically saying the same thing as the conductor that Ron was referring to, and it was pointed out what an idiot I was by other members.

I do study scales/patterns, but not to improve my playing rather to improve my understanding of theory. I try to pick songs that emphasize a technique that I want to work on.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2006 22:56:41

Ricardo

Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to Ron.M)

I get bugged by the "soul" in music or technique talk all the time. I mean, who is to say what you play with feeling or not? Can you not play ONE note with feeling? Why not a scale? If not, can you play ANY notes with feeling, or just some? I think you can practice your scale with "feeling" or expression or whatever you want, but you won't be doing your self much good unless you play in rhythm. Some folks think playing in strict time, running scales etc, is "cold" and mechanical. To me, simply playing IN rhythm, IS playing with feeling. At least rhythmic feeling. If you play with deliberate rhythmic control, even SILENCE has "feeling". I mean you play with feeling by playing NOTHING. It is relative to time.

Anyway, running scales, no matter how much mental or physical effort you put, the idea is you are carving a "road" or path in the jungle of the fretboard. The point is to make your travel next time smoother, in that neck of the woods. Nothing wrong with roughing it either, but that is the hard way obviously. But I think it is real important to keep things "musical" by basing your scale practice on rhythms. I personally used sequences when I was younger, that were based on certain rhythmic groupings, rather than running up and down. It was a little more fun, and helped me "cut the path" even better.

But the central arguement the conductor is making, I happen to appreciate. The techniques you need are in the music you want to play, SPECIFICALLY. You just need to be smart enough to know what you need to extract and practice. If you start off learning Gujiras de Lucia, you will discover the A major scale, a special fingering specific for that one passage. So by examining the piece you get the scale you need. But having run your A major scale for years, won't necessarily make Guajiras de Lucia "easy" for you. As Todd said there are many "paths" through the jungle that are leading to the same point.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2006 6:38:35

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to Ricardo)

word

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2006 6:56:16

ricecrackerphoto

Posts: 265
Joined: Feb. 5 2006

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to duende)

there was an interview with sonny rollins and he was asked about his practice habits. he said he started off everyday with playing a single long note on the sax over and over for at least half an hour, just working on its texture and quality. he said he had been playing D for about four years now.

i love that idea. i actually only play one scale to warm up with and i like that but i am going to start learning the segovia set and add it to my routine.

doug

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2006 7:37:58

hamia

Posts: 403
Joined: Jun. 25 2004

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

This might interest Miguel amongst others...

I was listening to an interview with Daniel Barenboim the famous pianist/conductor and he mentioned that he never ever practises scales etc.
He said something like "All the technical exercises you can find within the music. I think if you practise soul-less scales, it eventually creeps into your playing."

Also, mentioning another musician, he said something like..
"The guy would practise scales whilst reading the newspaper. To me this is wrong. Practise demands your full attention. It's not worthwhile practising anymore once your concentration has gone."

Interesting..of course that is only his view.

I must say myself though, that I find there are many simple falsetas that can be used to focus on a particular technique, rather than resorting to "systematic" exercises.

cheers

Ron

I always take what very advanced musicians say with a large pinch of salt. They started playing when they were very young and probably had a virtuoso technique by early teens. Their advice is not necessarily applicable for beginners/intermediates. I bet the guy playing scales while reading the paper was a first rate pianist. I've been playing 4 years (after a 20 year break), and I'd say around 70% of my practice is done on a soundless guitar, quite often only using one hand. Alternating i and m fingers for 2 hours while watching a DVD is a great way of fast tracking your picado!

Hamia

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2006 14:49:21

edgar884

Posts: 1975
Joined: Nov. 16 2005

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to Ron.M)

It's all relative to what you care about as a guitar player.
Segovia said "nothing replaces the slow study of scales".

I agree and disagree. Practicing scales gives you confidence and understanding of theory. With scale knowledge you can learn things faster. And you can figure out what key something is in, within seconds. I like the idea of taking something said by a master or professional with a grain of salt. Everybody practices with different techniques and plays with different emotions and style. But thats why every guitar player has something different to offer.

Some poeple play guitar for attention, and some play because there heart makes them.
And some play for reasons that I do not understand.

Studying scales is for when you have no inspiration to write and no desire to learn a new song. I study scales and technique when ever I get bored with the guitar.

Interesting post but I have to say scales are important and always will be.

Concentration becomes meditation, practicing scales gives you the freedom to experiment with you feelings and new ideas, it's kinda like how a new chord you learn can give you the inspiration to write a new song.

The saying noodling around on the guitar, well without noodling and improv there is no accidentals and inturn nothing original or new.

Just my thoughts, wish I had more time to hang out on the forum these days.

_____________________________

May we find God through Flamenco instead of Angels and Demons

www.gabrieledgar.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2006 5:14:48

jayvibe1

Posts: 1
Joined: Feb. 7 2006

RE: Scales and practising (in reply to Ron.M)

Idon't think scale playing is a waste of time.the notes should not be played with no feeling.play them slowly empersizing different styles of playing.play the same notes but go to blues style then flamenco,thenjazz,then rock,then classical or any feeling that you want to play.Use any techinique that you can to get different sounds and express different feelings.All music ever written comes from scales.Let them get into your mind so that thy come out with out even thinking about them.Play them slow play them fast make up your own music with them.Before long you will be able to express moments of your life in music,by lettings the scales come out of you with out even thinging about it