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lessons again.......
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gerundino63
Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands
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 lessons again.......
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It took a long time to decide, but maybe in february I start taking lessons again.
I haven't had lessons for a long time.
Eric Vaarzon Morel, a very good flamencoguitarist, who spend several years in Spain, is probably giving lessons at the Amsterdam Concervatory from februari.
I know him in person, so with a littlebit of luck, I can get in.
I like his stile of playing, so hoping to learn a lot , and study again for a lot of hours a day.
Hope I can manage it with the time, and the family.
But, if everything is becoming sure, I go for it!
if you are interested in Eric his music, here is his site
http://www.vaarzonmorel.com/
keep you informed!
greetings Peter.
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Date Oct. 28 2003 17:53:29
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Escribano
Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
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RE: lessons again....... (in reply to gerundino63)
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Nice to hear, Peter. I am jealous of cozy winter nights in Amsterdam cafes (Cafe Ruska and Cafe de Stil to be precise). I get back too late from work to get to class in London.
It's cool to be in this extended group with a shared interest and what we all get up to around flamenco.
<RANT>
For me, I am going to have to say goodbye to my au pair  She wants this, she wants that, now she wants me to buy her a car! Can you believe it, she's 23, never had a job, no money, hasn't spoken one English word since she got here, despite classes, won't cycle 8 minutes to the bus stop etc. etc.... I even gave her a pay rise last week. Now we have had a long chat tonight and I lost it, so she's out of here.
Mind you that was all in Spanish, I have been well and truly nagged and I fought back, all in Spanish. So I guess it worked out pretty well, as that's why I employed her in the first place 
Oh, and the RV fell through with dodgy paperwork and they've kept my deposit, so I am suing. Then I found out my sabbatical from work is more like resigning, as they are not obliged to take me back. I've had better days.
</RANT>
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Date Oct. 28 2003 18:37:28
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: lessons again....... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
Speaking as a spoiled American tourist, the service and facilities there are miserable. I saw a lot of college students. And a lot of construction. I also didn't see them working very hard on the sites. If you brought a Northern European work ethic to Spain... :)
Mike,
I seriously doubt it.... really!
When I used to go regularly to Spain (ages ago) I was amazed at the way they put up 20 storey hotels with no scaffolding, but just what looked liked odd bits of cut trees supporting each floor!
Also the bricklayers I saw in Cordoba, who would lay about 3 bricks an hour, inbetween arguing about life, flamenco and football between slugs of tinto from the bottle!
Barcelona was another country, dismissing itself from the arty-farty and liberal Madrid, and they certainly had no time for Andalucia...."this is life now and there's MONEY to be made."
As you can see, that tradition still goes on.
Well who's right?
And who's wrong?
It's gotta depend on how you see things.
Simon, have a bit of understanding here amigo, she's only 23, come from Spain probably with a vision of England in her head that is very different fron suburban Berkshire! LOL!
(Hey...could you imagine yourself getting a butler's job in France in some out-of town suburban area when you were 23?)
Mind you, I'd take a job as a butler for any of the Royal Family here for a couple of years.
Wouldn't have to work again! LOL!!
Ron
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Date Oct. 28 2003 20:05:20
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: lessons again....... (in reply to gerundino63)
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This is really interesting timing gentleman, for on another forum I frequent, there is an immense thread initiated by a guy who is "disillusioned by the system" and "wants out." Everyone chimed in about corporations dominating the world, "the man," incompetent CEOs, incompetent workers, etc. One of the things everyone likes to talk about is how "back in the day a man could support a wife and child, buy a house, all on one income." I wonder if they talk about things like that across the Atlantic. People over here are sure working hard, a lot of them anyway.
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Date Oct. 28 2003 20:42:21
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: lessons again....... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Yeah Mike,
It's the "Little House on the Prarie" syndrome.
Thing is, you can't live like that in 2003.
You've got to bring it up to date or you'll go under and get dragged off to a madhouse!
I used to listen a lot to a program on radio called " A Small Country Living", where very highly paid folk from London would get married and have a child and begin to think " What are we doing? We're paying a Nanny to look after our kid while we finish work and go to the Bar/Restaurant to talk shop and come home to kiss them goodnight when they're asleep".
So they quit their highly paid jobs and ventured off to the Cotswalds to keep chickens and goats in a charming Farmhouse with an Aga and a few acres.
It went well (as a holiday) until the dough started to run out.....
Then muchos problemos....
For myself, I thought...I totally hate my job and the way it devours my time and effort.... I know nothing about keeping sheep and pigs...the only thing I know how to do professionally is Electronics.
How the hell can you fit that in to a rural economy?
Well, it's a complicated story but I've managed to do it over the past 15 years!
The money's not great, (about 30% of what I could earn as a "legitimate" Engineer in the soul destroying Oil Industry), so you've got to downsize dramatically, but in saying that, we can still afford Aberdeen Angus beef and daily fresh fish and still be able to purchase (and appreciate) the odd bottle of Rioja on the weekends, so I have really no complaints.
And I've still got a bit stashed away for a good guitar if one passes my way.
(My *own* money and it's ringfenced! LOL!)
Hey Jim, are you thinking of selling that Bernal to make way for the new Stephen Hill?
Might be interested there!
cheers
Ron
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Date Oct. 28 2003 21:36:13
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: lessons again....... (in reply to gerundino63)
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First, Ron, here in the States, everyone has two cars. Usually one is a gas-guzzling SUV. If you've never been over here, you'll be flabbergasted. SUVs are huge (so are Americans). Houses are getting big over here, too. Lots of people live in 4,000 square foot houses around here. TVs are huge! Everyone has to have an "entertainment" center, a solid wood monolith that houses the widescreen TVs, CD player, DVD player, VHS player, cable box, and surround sound.
If people around here got small houses, had one car, and didn't splurge on consumer items and indulge in enormous debt, one paycheck would do it. I can't say anything about Europe, it's probably quite different over there.
Second, Ron, I would like to hear your theories about the flamenco sound. I am well aware that I fall into the category of the foreign guitarist with some dexterity but doesnt' sound flamenco. In my defense, I have practiced exercises a hundred times more than flamenco or pieces, so as that shifts over, I'm sure I'll improve on that front. But I know you are an expert in this and if you would like to have your say, I want to have a listne.
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Date Oct. 28 2003 22:25:48
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Escribano
Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
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RE: lessons again....... (in reply to gerundino63)
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quote:
Fisit me a weekend, see all the bars in Amsterdam,
You're on, my bar crawl looks like this: In De Wildeman first and we won't actually leave  but on to The Luxembourg or the American Hotel, see if we get lucky with las chicas, then a ristafel or a steak at Sluizer's, and into my old local, Onder de Ooievaar for some exceptional Columbus beer from the Ij. An hour or two in Van Puffelen's for the late night crowd, followed by Cafe Ruska for a quick spliff and finally, two single malts at Cafe De Stil - Isle of Dura perhaps? If you're going to be sick, it has to be in The Singel, no royalty there.
You're right, my worries have gone already 
Anyone else fancy a flamenco weekend in Amsterdam, well more of a pub crawl with or without guitars? We could find a nice snug bar and do an impromptu gig? I'm serious.
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Date Oct. 28 2003 22:38:02
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Escribano
Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
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RE: lessons again....... (in reply to Ron.M)
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quote:
(Hey...could you imagine yourself getting a butler's job in France in some out-of town suburban area when you were 23?)
Good point, but I can and I did when I was 22 - except I was employed by Frejus council to empty dustbins and sweep the beaches, it was on the Riviera but 30 miles from St. Tropez so I cycled over there every Wednesday until I could afford a motorbike by returning empty wine bottles for the deposit, reselling beach mats and selling bacon sandwiches to tourists at 10FF a go I guess I was a kind of entrepreneur, but a lazy one.
See, now I am old git who has been there, done that and it was no problem, which of course, is a lie. It was often a problem; but if your employee (or your wife) comes to you every day with new demand, the fork in the road grows nearer.
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Date Oct. 28 2003 22:45:20
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Escribano
Posts: 6416
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
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RE: lessons again....... (in reply to gerundino63)
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quote:
If you vistit Amsterdam again, there is a nice Tapas flamenco cafe called cafe Duende. Lindengracht 62.
If I recall, that is a gracht with no gracht, but a great Saturday market, right? I tried it one night but it was closed I would love to go when it's open. You up for a visit, maybe your own itinerary?
There was a similar place off the Tottenham Court Road (London), near the Blue Post, I wonder if it's still there? Can't recall the name.... hey, I just looked on Google (I love Google, that's how I found most of you guys) and I am sure this is it:
quote:
Costa Dorada
47 Hanway Street, W1.Evening:020-7636 7139/631 5117; daytime: 01727-86 7274; Tottenham Court Road Tube Well-established with live music, dancing and Flamenco cabaret every night, including fiestas with visiting Spanish artistes six to eight times a year. Ideal place for parties and special occasions with party menus for ten or more people. Spanish specialities include Paella, Chicken with Garlic, Monkfish Casserole, plus many seafood delicacies. Open Mon-Sat 7.30pm-3am, with Tapas bar open from 6pm. Fully licensed. Acc, Diners, Visa. Average for two with wine GBP 45.
Flamenco every night, 'til 3am? That has got to be worth a try, I'll let you know.
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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
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Date Oct. 28 2003 23:14:18
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: lessons again....... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Hi Mike,
I have spent some time working in the States for Texas Instruments, so I know a little bit about the culture.
Firstly I would say that the Americans I met in the States were so very different from the Americans I found travelling in Europe in my hitchiking days.
Honestly, very thorough, hard working, decent folk who gave me an honest and heartfelt welcome to be in their land..
Everybody....... Black, White, Hispanic etc.
I can see the positive side of the US as a melting pot, and that is a lasting image.
(The current situation in Iraq, and self exclusion from International Law at Guantanamo Bay, Rejection of World Environment issues and Capital Punishment being a few "slight" exceptions! LOL!!)
Still I'm not responsible for what Tony Blair does, as I'm sure you cannot be held accountable for George W's methods and ideas.
I'm not poor, but I have a 2 bedroomed house, no sportscar, no widescreen TV, no surround sound, no mobile phone with latest ringtones etc...
I hate 'em all personally, I have no need for them in my life, but I support and cheer on the folk who buy all these things and keep the economy moving!
(Bet Pat does as well! LOL!)
On the Flamenco "Sound".
Jeez, Mike...that's difficult....I don't have an answer.
I know it when I hear it, as I'm sure everybody here does too.
I don't think there are lessons on that.
Just listening and working at it.
(And still sounding crap!! )
cheers
Ron
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Date Oct. 28 2003 23:15:40
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: lessons again....... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Mike,
About this "Flamenco Sound" thing....I'm certainly no expert on this or how to achieve it and I certainly don't have it.
It's just something that caught my attention some years back when I wondered why, when I heard some technically excellent foreign players play some good, interesting falsetas....that, somehow it still seemed to lack something...some missing ingredient.
You don't need to be a Flamenco maestro like PdL, Tomatito etc to have it, but they all do anyway.
Lots of minor professionals and amateurs in Spain have it.
And it's not just the material.
Gerardo Nuñez has it, although he tends to play avante garde type stuff.
(By the way, John Lennon described "avant garde" as "French for ****" LOL!)
Obviously it's not like the duende suddenly descends upon you and waves a wand and you have it.
But I think it's something that can be acquired over the years with careful listening.
Jim Opfer managed to catch it on his upload "res for Simon".
Have a listen to that clip, not just the technique, but the overall sound.
It's in the slight subtleties of attack and dynamics.
A perfect example that you don't need to be Spanish or brought up by the Gypsies to sound Flamenco (although that probably helps! LOL!)
That's why I think it's not a good idea for Flamenco guitar students to listen to only the "outstanding" players like Paco etc.
You'll never pick it up from them as it is masked by too many other things going on at the same time.
It's a bit like accents.
Lot's of folk can do a good Michael Caine or Sean Connery "take off".
But, as a very good professional impersonator explained:-
"They are actually doing an impersonation of the impersonator, who has stripped away all the unnecessary stuff and left the essence, thus making it easier."
Anyway, I'm sure it can be acquired although it has mainly eluded me to date! LOL!
Actually that's not true....every now and then I may just hit a chord or note or strike a rasgueado and think "Hey!".
It's a matter of trying to focus in on what made it come out that way.
cheers
Ron
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Date Oct. 29 2003 11:53:54
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: lessons again....... (in reply to gerundino63)
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Ron, that makes a lot of sense. I bet through careful study, it's possible to pick up a lot of this thing. I think what happens with these foreign guitarists, is they think they have mastered the technique, so they stop growing. Maybe because they can play picado better than 90% of the spanish guitarists, and know the names of all the chords, that they play better, too. Seems like a trap. A true musician practices with his ear as much as he does with his fingers, so he should be able to comprehend and execute these nuances. I know that I'm going to keep learning and listening--especially since one of my goals is to do a little singing! I've been spending time on individual vowels and consonants, trying to make them sound Spanish.
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Date Oct. 29 2003 14:20:43
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