Flamenco turf...

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Flamenco turf...

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John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

Flamenco turf...

Got a situation here, will try to keep it short.

I used to play about three times a week next to my teacher at one school. He taught me a lot and I'm very grateful. I help him out at shows he organizes when I can to show gratitude.

I was invited to play at another school very close, at which he also accompanies. Now I have always made a special effort to back off when it concerns accompanying which he does to make money since he lives from flamenco, but there still always seems to be problems because he always has problems with this teacher anyways. I want to do some shows with a singer, then not because he needs to do the shows, I'll be accompanying once more a week at this other school, then not because he needs the hours.

I eventually needed to start accompanying alone and not always at his side because that was the only way I was able to improve at a certain point, but always was afraid of stepping on his toes financially. Also since I'm not accompanying by his side anymore, I think I might have given the impression "I don't need you anymore", when I thought I was actually doing him a favor - he always let me sit in for free.

I was at another show tonight and the people treated me weird, or I just thought they were because I'm paranoid. Then again I could never get along with these artsy crouds, just feel uncomfortable around the lot of them. The whole thing makes me wanna give up on trying to go public in the flamenco scene.

He's not the easiest guy to talk to, I guess neither am I...

I just get pissed when people can't say what's on their minds and when money and politics ruin the fun in making music....

John

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2006 21:31:15

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Flamenco turf... (in reply to John O.)

Hmmm, John, sounds like an unpleasant situation. To me, it sounds like to advance in your development, you are going to have to step on some toes in some sense. If you have to accompany to move forward, you need to do that. If you don't like it, there is another option and that's to go somewhere that has dancers but no guitarists.

But your teacher did teach you and he helped you learn to accompany. In other words, he knew what he was getting into... he created the monster that is you ! :) In my opinion it's a normal process of life that things change.

To preserve your reputation, I would avoid accompanying for free or undercutting his fee. You may think you are just doing the dancers a favor, but he not see it that way.

Politics is just a way of life and I hear that word used a lot in reference to flamenco scenes. A good way to avoid it is to make friends with the people who are in power! You may not like it, but once you open your eyes you will realize that politics inundandate all walks of life and all forms of human activity. It's your choice whether to make it work for you, or to ignore it and suffer the consequences because of following a non-existent ideal.

Good luck!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2006 1:24:10

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Flamenco turf... (in reply to John O.)

Hi John O.

This sounds normal, like what normaly happens when accompanying, sooner or later u will wanna try some of your own ideas.

This guy should be proud of you and encouraging you, but i am sure he will come around after a while, but i think you should talk, not just stop going to his classes without ever saying anything because that might make him feel paranoid too and if he dosent know exactly why then his mind will just make up storys like " He dosent like me anymore, He thinks he can do better, Or he got what he wanted now i am not usefull to him anymore etc..

Assure his ego, tell him that he is your teacher but you wanna try and think the rythms out for yourself too rather than always just following him witch is easyer and u dont get to use much of your brain because someone has already pretought it out.

dont worry too much about it, they will come around eventualy

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2006 5:44:51

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Flamenco turf... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

accompanying for free or undercutting his fee

That's another problem. Initially he was all for me accompanying at that school, and for less. He's extremely expensive (but with over 10 years experience accompanying), I could never ask for what he gets per hour.

The problem started when the dance teacher started taking advantage of having a cheaper guitarist, he felt stabbed in the back and I understand him. Eventually a fight broke out and now he's hardly ever there at all. He says it's okay for me to accompany there, but I don't really believe him. I think the problem won't be solved until I've moved somewhere else...

Fact is as well that I used to be able to accompany three hours in an evening three times a week but just got burned out working 9-10 hour days along side so now I only will make the effort if there's a bit of money in it, and that's only at the other school. So now there's the deal with these two dance schools who are in a way against each other, since I'm at the one but not at the other people take it weird - it's like a Bruce Lee movie with flamenco dancers!

People... they're the worst!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2006 11:40:12

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Flamenco turf... (in reply to John O.)

its a problem based on perceived need for loyalty, people get funny when money and need get in the way.

lol on the bruce lee thing, that stuff has gone on in the martial arts circuit and city where i live. people should tie that bull outside the door and get on with whats important ie teaching those to dance abd those to play.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2006 11:52:41

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Flamenco turf... (in reply to John O.)

quote:

People... they're the worst!

somebody loves Sienfield :-)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2006 12:09:31

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Flamenco turf... (in reply to Florian)

And I don't care what my wife says: should we had a child one day, it's name will be "Seven"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2006 12:24:49

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Flamenco turf... (in reply to John O.)

There are allways problems with money and who plays where and so on. Thats normal. Dont take it too hard and go your way.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 20 2006 19:49:34

Ricardo

Posts: 14897
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco turf... (in reply to John O.)

I saw your vid john, you should not be doing freebies, favors, or discounts just because it is fun and you have a day job. Charge the same as your teacher if you can do his job. If you can't, then do what you think is fair. Don't give any dancer/singer a chance to save money because the other guy is too pricey. That is undercutting. Don't let people use you or take advantage of your abilities and easy going manner. Doing a friend a favor is something else.

Do you really think he is that much better than you? I don't know, so be honest about it. Talk to him about it. Perhaps he is intimidated by you, in which case, jack your price up above his. Seriously. If he is confident in his ablity than he should not be worried at all about what you are doing/charging. Good luck amigo.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 21 2006 4:10:01