Picado - crossing strings

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seanm

Posts: 169
Joined: Apr. 5 2005
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Picado - crossing strings

I was wondering what others think about this technical point with regard to descending picado and crossing strings. My classical background has taught me that when playing scales, you alway alternate (for example, im im im im) with particular attention to crossing strings. However, I've been looking at the Chicuelo encuentro tabs and noticed that he often uses i i when crossing strings - not always but when ever it seems convienent. For instance, he will play 'c' on the second string with i, slur to the open 'b' and then use the same i finger that came to rest on the third string to play an 'a'. He even does this in one scale passage without a slur (so sliding across the stings with one finger in sixteens). But ussually it's combined with a slur. Also, he never seems to do it with m. This makes sence because if your m finger is on the second string, for instance, the i finger can easly play the third string (it's more natural it seems). I should also note that he is doing this on very fast scales.

Would this be considered an accepted flamenco practice? Something a lot of player do? Just wondering what others think.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2006 16:59:23

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Picado - crossing strings (in reply to seanm)

Sean,
I call it "pig" picado LOL!
That's the way I play!
I believe in the old days many players played like this, but after PdL I think the up and coming "hot shots" started looking at their technique more carefully.
I don't think folk like PdL or Gerardo or Enrique de Melchor and all the fast picado guys do it like that anymore, but try to concentrate on alternating fingers for every note.
Grisha, who is a picado wizz will be able to tell you better!
Or Ricardo who has been to Gerardo's school.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2006 17:10:24

seanm

Posts: 169
Joined: Apr. 5 2005
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Picado - crossing strings (in reply to seanm)

Well. That's what I found a bit weird. Chicuelo is only ~32 years old and is considered a young modern player. And the consistancy with which he uses this has convinced me that he must be praticing these passages like this in a conscience way.

There seems to be a musical benefit to this too. When he starts on i, then slurs and then goes to i again, it put the index finger back on the strong beat of the sixteens (again this seem fairly consistent). If you do this using strict alteration then your 'down beat' finger switches from i to m. Of course, I was trained to ignore this and learn to maintain consistancey regardless, but then again, what I love about flamencois that instead of fighting the guitar you just go with what is most natural :)

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2006 17:35:19

Ricardo

Posts: 14897
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Picado - crossing strings (in reply to seanm)

Yeah this is legitamate technique that most top players are aware of and use. It is a "cheat" because you can't do the same economic picado ascending, so you still need to develop the speed needed to alternate. But there are no real rules in flamenco, although there is lots of logic involved technique wise. I have seen many sloppy sounding players use this "same finger" pull across the strings w/out caring which finger or how. And that is how the sound comes out, like they don't care. Regardless there must be control. Playing in rhythm dictates that the player is aware which finger is playing on the beat, not random alternations.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2006 18:11:36

seanm

Posts: 169
Joined: Apr. 5 2005
From: Halifax, Nova Scotia

RE: Picado - crossing strings (in reply to seanm)

Thanks for the info! I'll switch a couple of the picados I 'corrected' back to the original fingering and try this technique. I'll try and record both versions (my strict alternating and then the 'same finger' version) and see if there is musical difference.

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 9 2006 18:30:30