Time Signatures in Flamenco

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Gecko

Posts: 218
Joined: Jan. 2 2006
From: New Mexico

Time Signatures in Flamenco

As I read and study some of the literature I have I see that like compas certain families of palos have traditional time signatures. These time signatures are given by palos as 2/4, 4/4 or 3/4, 6/8. Now, in my limited exposure to the actual written music I have yet to come across a piece that carries a 2/4 or 6/8 time signature.

So is this because I have simply not yet encountered enough written flamenco and there actually are pieces that carry either a 2/4 or 6/8 time signature or in flamenco is it just assumed that, say for example a piece with a given time signature of 3/4, but generally uses 1/8 notes is 6/8 time? Then why not give the time signature in the piece as 6/8? If that’s the case then what would be considered 2/4 time?

Being a beginner is a terrible thing!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2006 11:54:30

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Time Signatures in Flamenco (in reply to Gecko)

There are more than one way to see a time signature.

A lot of times you write in whats easyer to read, and help the musician to understand the score.
EXAMPLE. Bulerias. can be writen as a 6/8-3/4 time like the german book. Martinez or Graph whatever the name is. I think Andres Batistas books also uses this for Bulerias.
A lot of other tabs/scores uses regular 3/4 time. Some use a 12/4, i even seen 3/8.

Often when i write myself i use the 1 as a 12. I do that because that way i get rid of a lot of syncopations. so it´s quicker for me.

diffrent trascribers write in diffrent ways. the 6/8, 3/4 combination is very easy to understand since it gives the right feeling the Bulerias. A 3/4 Buleria Notaion is very confuseing unless you are already familiar with Bulerias.
In my opinion there are´t a right or wrong way to put the music on papper.

the worst case of notation was the first flamenco book i ever got. i bought it in Madrid
a guitarist called El Remolino. (jose martin Albo) has writen a solea like this

3/4-2/4!! what the hell is that

this is the way he has writen the 12 cycle.
1 2-1 2 3-1 2-1 2-1 2 1!

HE should be stripped naked and forced to run down a Madrid street!

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2006 12:29:15

Ricardo

Posts: 14887
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Time Signatures in Flamenco (in reply to Gecko)

I classical music, the down beat of a bar is the first beat you count. Non flamencos notating flamenco guitar music messed up a lot when it came to conveying the compas in terms of meter. The count system is used by dancers, a language to communicate with the guitar and singer, but the musicians dont' really count and play or use that to learn. I have seen several good transcriptions that show the feel of certain flamenco rhythms, but most are lacking in that area. Don't focus too much energy on the way the meter is written at this stage, just learn how to strum in tempo, learn a rhythm playing technique. When you start to feel where the beat is, the stress in the music, it will make sense. Then you will say "why did they write it like THAT?"

In terms of 2/4 6/8, listen to Tanguillo and Zapateado.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 4 2006 21:34:16

Guest

RE: Time Signatures in Flamenco (in reply to Gecko)

Ricardo,

I enjoy the advice you give to others. It is always straight to the point and great advice. This is a great forum and enjoy it the more I read it.

Ivan Gomez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 5 2006 2:50:04

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Time Signatures in Flamenco (in reply to Gecko)

quote:

I have yet to come across a piece that carries a 2/4 or 6/8 time signature.

As Ricardo has indicated Tanguillo and Zapateado are in 2/4 time. You must add that the feeling is a lilt (feeling) of 6/8 time. This is the first family of palos I was taught. It seemed so strange coming from the classical world. It did not take long to enjoy playing it though. In fact, I still love it.

There are many music terms to define where each note falls in a Tanguillo and Zapateado. It does not start on the beat! In fact you have the first two notes falling before the beat. So be sure that that third note is on the beat. Keep a consistant beat and you will be ok.

I can play these palos in my sleep. Just ask my wife!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 5 2006 19:16:46