Playing out of a barre

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SLJ

Posts: 85
Joined: Jul. 12 2013
From: Houston Texas

Playing out of a barre

Please forgive this newb question. watching vids , I see guys playing out of a barre position. flamenco & classical. I understand that effectually the barre finger becomes the new nut,,, but don't understand / nor do my fingers cooperate when trying to play out of a barre. any suggestions, I know practice, and I enjoy practice,, but Im not sure what to practice. Should I barre and then try to play scales within that barre?

if this makes no sense I apologize Steve

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2013 14:47:43

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Playing out of a barre (in reply to SLJ)

I think this is something that takes a lot of work, sensitivity, and time. Notice exactly what notes need to be played by the barre and try to only hold those down. In other words, if you aren't playing on the 3rd string, for example, don't kill yourself trying to hold it down with the index. Thus you can reduce the overall strength needed.

Fiddle around with the micro-position of the barre, wiggle it, rotate it, until you are holding down the notes with the minimum of pressure.

Don't use brute strength, use placement and drill the easiest placement when you find it.

Practice this up at the fifth fret or wherever it feels easiest. The 1st position is the worst and hardest and requires the most strength, so build up to it.

Practice placing the fingers first, then adding the barre. Make sure you are not using too much pressure on the fingers either.

Lay down a full barre and only make the sixth string ring clean. then only the fifth, then only the fourth, etc.

Practice slurs (hammers and pulloffs) while holding a half and full barre. Monitor the presssure and don't use too much.

Try to use the weight of the arm or the pull of the biceps to take some of the load from your thumb.

Go through a lot of music that has barres and specifically learn the passages with the barres. Don't forget to practice going into and out of the barre--don't only practice it in isolation.

Practice chromatic octaves (without a barre) every day.

Make sure to practice scales or other passages piannisimo (lightly as possible with both hands). The less pressure you use, the more finger independence you will have. And that is a good base to work from and then add tension.

As you can see, there are a lot of things to help this issue, but a lot of work is required. Most people never do the work and just use brute strength.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2013 15:47:18

SLJ

Posts: 85
Joined: Jul. 12 2013
From: Houston Texas

RE: Playing out of a barre (in reply to SLJ)

thank you!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2013 15:57:41

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Playing out of a barre (in reply to SLJ)

In melody playing what seems to be barre quit often is actually "half barre" meaning you only touch/press a limited amount of strings. In half barre your index finger tip can select/cover 2 or 3 neighboring strings and wile the index takes care of those 2 or 3 frets the other fingers take care of the rest. Some play scales with a fully placed index but even in that situation you can avoid giving full pressure to all 6 strings simultaneously by giving more pressure were needed and less or no pressure were it is not needed.

Even when you play full barre chords the barre finger generally only give pressure were needed, so strings that are covered by the other fingers often receive no additional pressure of the index finger..... it's a little bid like a bow construction, the tip of the index can (again) cover the (outer) base strings while the base of your finger is pressed against the (outer) treble strings.

--3---pressure with index base
--5---no pressure index
--5---no pressure index
--5---no pressure index
--3---pressure with index tip
---------------------

If in above situation i would lift the other fingers and stroke the index chord to demonstrate the pressure points of the index, the in between strings would produce no sound because they are touched but not pressed by the index

--3---pressure with index base
--x---no pressure/sound
--x---no pressure/sound
--x---no pressure/sound
--3---pressure with index tip
---------------------

The middle part of the index generally is only giving pressure when it has to cover a fret that is not covered by an other finger.

--3---pressure with index
--5----------
--3---pressure with index
--5-----------
--3---pressure with index
---------------

I probably use/place my index differently in both situations. In fact every situation demands a different position of the index. Before i started to take some serious lessons (after i played the guitar for 12 year) i used to start barre chords by placing the index first after which i had to break a couple of fingers in there struggle to reach the other notes. My teacher revealed it should be the other way around.... first you have to choose a hand position that allows the other fingers to function/take position the best possible way and the closing index just falls like it falls which means it falls different in different situations... it might point in different directions, can be straight or curved sometimes you use the flat site, other times it's turned a little to the side. So the trick is to find a hand position that serves the total picture, favoring the optimal use of the other fingers wile the index adapts to the (chancing) situation(s). When playing chords placing the index is often the closing part of the action, when playing melodies in half barre placing the index is often is the start of the action. Obviously when you know the situation very well all things can happen almost simultaneously.

I never play scales covering 6 strings with the index in barre myself, but if i would i would again only apply pressure were needed. It is possible to switch (unnoticed) between full barre and half barre and that often means the difference between being able to handle your other fingers or not. Like i said, the other fingers always prevail since your index is the most flexible finger and can always find ways to adapt to the chancing situations/demands.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2013 16:03:00

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Playing out of a barre (in reply to SLJ)

Nice Post Erik!
Play more than 25 years, but still can use your tips!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2013 16:42:13

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Playing out of a barre (in reply to SLJ)

Obviously lots depend on the previously and fallowing action as well. If you play a series of barre chords the index tend to stay on string most of the time (even when changing position). In general when playing stroked chords all fingers arrive at there new spot simultaneously (you re-shape the chord in the air, which is integrated in bringing the individual fingers from x>y in a fluent move). Obviously some fingers have to travel a longer distance then others (some don't have to move at all an can remain on place). You can level the difference by varying the move, the speed and/or the amount of stretching/curving of each individual finger. These are also your weapons when it comes to avoid clinching and other matters of logistics. Sound and/or mechanical issues can be a reason to leave some fingers behind a bit longer or to fret them a bit sooner/later or even more then once. Don't leave everything to the fingers. Lot's of ground can be covered by a correct positioning/use of hand/thump and arm and (in)correct use of these tools can mean a world of difference. Quite often changing chords involves subtle or less subtle transitions of these settings as well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 19 2013 20:28:26