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X-mas question
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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 RE: X-mas question (in reply to Doitsujin)
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I'm sure Shakespeare would recognize the superiority of current English English over American English....but I wonder if would like either?
Apparently there is a new trend over here, where you can't say "Merry Christmas". IT seems that this has now become "un-PC", because there are some people for whom it is a religious issue. They celebrate Happy Hannukah or Merry Kwanza, and it's inappropriate to force a Christian holiday upon them. So, now it's "Happy Holidays".
Maybe I'm just getting old, but this seems ridiculous to me. Christmas, for me, is the most secular holidy around. It's about Santa Claus and presents and eating too much, not about some virgin giving birth to the Savior (by the way, some new research has turned up that the translation of the Bible saying Mary was a virgin was an error!! It should have read "maiden", or young girl, not truly virgin. Are they going to have to recall the Bibles to fix the error?).
To be honest, if every Jewish person I saw said "Happy Hannukah" to me, how would that offend me? Or if every African person said "Kwanzaa", so what? I don't get it.
My wife said in her old office there was a Jewish lady who was really upset that they had a Christmas tree in the office. I just don't understand. They could put a huge Menorrah in front of the house and it would not offend my religious sensibilities. I don't care!
The yule log was a religious object in ancient pagan rituals, wasn't it? Does that mean we can't have a fireplace anymore? Mistletoe is the same, so should we make sure we use a non-denominational parasital vegetable instead?
Next thing you know, "Happy Holidays" will be seen as offensive to workaholics, who never and never can take holidays.
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Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 24 2005 14:20:33
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sorin popovici
Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania
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RE: X-mas question (in reply to Doitsujin)
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quote:
not about some virgin giving birth to the Savior (by the way, some new research has turned up that the translation of the Bible saying Mary was a virgin was an error!! It should have read "maiden", or young girl, not truly virgin. Are they going to have to recall the Bibles to fix the error?).
I'm not that religious ....but here in Romania we dont think "some virgin" is the right tone.
I mean as I said ,I'm not that religious ...I go twice a year at church easter and christmas
,but u should understand that "holy night" means holy night.I dont look for history here
, to me it doesnt matter like if history says she was a virgin or not.
Talking like that ...it's like asking for it (I'm not at all antiamerican , but there are some simple people that blame the americans for turning this day into a comercial holiday that has nothing to do anymore with tradition.Santa Clause it's not a christian tradition.)
I dont think u'll get away with that also in Spain , Spain it's profound catholic or
it use to be ...some of it it still is.Seen this documentary ...dont remember where in Spain,there is this cross or smth that has such a religious value to the people that
from all over the country man and women get there and walk the last 100 metres
or so in the knees just to get to kiss that cross.
No need to apologize ,as I said I'm not that religious ...but still this will find just
a bit impressed by this story.It's not easy to walk in your knees for 100 metres
....I hope u get it or they'll get u  (bu ha haha ..the inquisition times are not
over yet).Btw I'm not even catholic ...i'm orthodox christian,like the russians
are.U shouldnt toy with this ,tradition as I understand is not a joke in flamenco either.
Merry Christmas !
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Date Dec. 24 2005 18:14:34
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: X-mas question (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
To be honest, if every Jewish person I saw said "Happy Hannukah" to me, how would that offend me? Or if every African person said "Kwanzaa", so what? I don't get it.
Hmm...just because you would not be offended by them they should also not be offended by you? Wrong! lol
No but serious I often hear that kind of statement: People should treat me like I treat them.
But this is not the world we live in lol thats not how it works. We are not equal, neither in culture, nor in social status, differences in a state (minority/majority) ...
I find it also exaggerated to prohibit the word christmas, although to some people it might be an offense. But ive coming to my point: If the majority in US was against it ONLY THAT would the reason why it wouldnt be prohibited.
Of course Id rather live in a world where everyone can party his own "holiday" and where everyone know the culture of the other a bit better and have more understanding.
But when coming to the religous issues, Im not an expert but based on old religous facts, it seems there is an issue, whether the people feel it like one is another question.
Anyway, I am kind of atheistic, so nor muslim, jew or anything X lol. No religous troubles with me, everyone can party his own X 
happy X you all !
Ps:
quote:
It's about Santa Claus and presents and eating too much, not
I liked the disillusioned tone in that  By the way my favorite word in english: Disillusionment. Its latin so theres also an equivalent in german, but in english it just sounds nicer, really !
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Фламенко
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Date Dec. 24 2005 18:35:18
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: X-mas question (in reply to Doitsujin)
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@Sorin
Hm.. as I said Im atheistic, but actually its not true. Im more anti-religious. The difference is:
I dont know whether there is something like God, but Im pretty convinced that there is no institutional God, the moral God like in religions. There are some really strong reasons that, putting in a nutshale, mostly lead to the analysis that its more a psychological help for the people to live with natural and human disaster (earthquake, wars) and it was an IS still a controlling method for the governments and rulers, for interior AND foreign policy.
Im straightforward regarding this, but its important to me to see the real thing behind the surface. Religion is not only about God or not. Religious people tend to think its totally subjective and regarding "belief" it is, yes. You can believe in almost anything. I personally believe in "Dominosteine" which in english would be "Domino stones", a cube of chocolate mixed of different layers with marzipan and gelatine I think lol. They are available during X-mas.
... dam lost my point lol
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Date Dec. 24 2005 18:51:35
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sorin popovici
Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania
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RE: X-mas question (in reply to Doitsujin)
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it's not about who's stupid or not .It's about taking some time ...be understanding
with the simple people that dont want to see it like u...if u try to
impose your view on somebody that since he was a kid was praying with his folks
at a church,u'll have some conflictes.To him ...it isnt about religion it's about
all he believes ...he associate religion also with family as he was teached these habits
by his family.So ...u'll get war.U can not just show up and say ....well this is nice but
lets forget about religion and family and about who u are. This is a complex issue
...if it was that simple 9/11 would not have happend,it's so complex that the world
greatest power didnt find yet a good solution.We wont find either.
@Phrygus
I see things like this.Science has nothing to do with this.This is so so complex
that u just cant rationalize it no matter how much we develop through the technical
progress.Y?
Look at the bright people from a couple centuries ago?People were as smart as they
grow today also.For example Kant would have a place in our world ,he was inteligent
probably like Einstein was.
As the humankind progress they dont get smarter ...as separate individuals they
are pretty the same like a milenium ago.But they get to be more of them.We are now
6 billions .And they get more organized , that's why they still progress...because
now for every lightbulb , we have ten more men to work on it ...not like a century ago.
Now, this god existance is like that.This is not a problem that u can put ten men
to work on this ....and if necessary get more men.This is an individual problem ,this
is a problem that has different answers to every one of us.Since this is so subjective
I refuse to rationalize this ..if u want to say poetical or smth I would say like
"my god speaks in a language that no one else can understand but me,and sometimes
I dont understand it either.So I can not teach you this language"
To bottom line is ...that if I'm right and people just dont get any smarter as the
time passes and new generation apear , is that is very posible that u'll never
play like PDL....cause playing like PDL is an individual problem as well,no one
can teach u that.Sure music changes its style ...sabicas is different from PDL
,but ne......i dont think there is progress.I think it's pure chance that PDL
was born.That's why people still listen Mozart ...cause he is unique in a way,
that progress can not beat that.
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Date Dec. 24 2005 18:53:07
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: X-mas question (in reply to Doitsujin)
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Sorin lol first happy that you didnt take it as offense.
I feel you also made some thoughts about it, thats great.
But I think you have to rationalize it more.
As you saw, Im dividing between
Religion
God
Belief
and I would add Social aspects. To the first three points Ive already made some statements. You said that religion is also a cultural thing. Fully agree! But again, try to rationalize it, see not only the things, but also the things that determine these things itself.
Im not the best at philosophic language and for sure especially not in english.
Summing up I would say on your example:
quote:
he associate religion also with family as he was teached these habits
by his family
What do we have there? People.
What do we have there if we remove the religion? People.
quote:
U can not just show up and say ....well this is nice but
lets forget about religion and family and about who u are.
Forgetting is the last thing we should do regarding religion, no no. I didnt say that either.
I didnt understand your word "People were as smart as they
grow today also.For example Kant would have a place in our world ,he was inteligent
probably like Einstein was." 100% but I know that the comparison to the material progression is leading to a dead-end.
Kant may live in our world, but most of his ideas are already outdated. Or at least his concept as a whole, whereas some ideas might be still correct. Even Plato said things 2000 years ago, that are still correct!
Again, since I dealed with Philosophy in school, I always think about the questions why and how humans think something, how the social life works and so on. Its always important to me to not just accept it the way it is and thats it you know.
There is no one single way to see the things; and I know that also my thinking, as everyone's, is to a degree determined by things I can not change, but I try to keep my mind free and to be objective as I can be possibly
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 24 2005 21:01:31
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sorin popovici
Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania
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RE: X-mas question (in reply to Doitsujin)
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quote:
But you have to see: People who invented religion did know so few about the world and how it functions. Cmon Sorin, they were interpreting so much things of which we today now how they really work. Medicine, to give only one single but powerfull example.
look some things must be real to you,what u say it's comunism Marx.People
who invented comunism thinked also that religion is a superstition ...so they
thought to interdict it.
Romania lived 50 years in comunism....and our political police (aka "Securitatea" ...smth like
KGB) made every effort not to make people to enter a church again.They demolished
churches ,they put people in jail cause they believed in god.The result ?
After 50 years on an easter night ...now, after we entered the capitalism world(after
the revolution the churches are full again.
My point is obvious ....u are rewriting history with this new idea "religion is superstition"
...we know Marx and Stalin ...and this nobile ideas brought us ....only poverty and
broken hearts.Dont be fooled , this is nothing new ...there is no novelty in this idea
...we lived by this idea for 50 years,it's not pretty...and because of that we beg now
UE to let us in , we have a lot to catch up.
By the way classical guitar is teached in our schools since 1989 .So for me comunism
brought me no internet , no PDL ...so imagine that.Imagine that in a city with 500.000
people there are ten classical guitarists ...and some of them are guitarist cause they
didnt like violin that much.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 24 2005 22:34:18
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: X-mas question (in reply to Doitsujin)
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I watched the DVD, and I think I understand Strunz and Farah better now. They really are different than the "nouveau flamenco" practioners out there, for several reasons.
1. They have created a "new" style. I don't know it's really new, but I haven't been exposed to it. It's a sort of fusion of jazz and latin rhythms, with a heavy two-guitar emphasis. There is room for improvisation that jazz players would probably find more familiar than flamencos. There are a lot of repeating chord progressions that invite noodling.
2. As opposed to the guys who just strum rumbas all day, they are influenced and study other South American rhythms.
3. Their partnership may be unique in just how developed they have their harmony lines. They aren't particularly impressive in their complexity, just the speed and precision.
4. They obviously do not rely on their looks to get ahead, as Ottmar, Benise, Jesse Cook, and Linstead perhaps do!
5. Their picking is highly developed and precise.
In short, Strunz and Farah is a very mellow, perhaps "cool" type of jazz-fusion, not really a vehicle for pop-like repeating melodies. Personally, I don't find their style particularly appealing, although I do respect their abilities and dedication to their own "thang".
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Connect with me on Facebook, all the cool kids are doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/migueldemariaZ
Arizona Wedding Music Guitar
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Date Dec. 26 2005 17:58:32
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