Modern Flamenco Tones,chords .ect.

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miguel

Posts: 56
Joined: Apr. 20 2004

Modern Flamenco Tones,chords .ect.

Hello All

With modern Flamenco rarely you will see a piece using the "traditional" Chords, and tones.

for example, antonia(por Paco)
it is a solea por Buleria but its main chords are E6->G->A->F#9.

I was wondering if anyone could give me more chords and examples like these, as im intrested to learn.

Regards
Miguel

_____________________________

<<No hay música más rica ni más viva en todo europa>> ---Manuel de Falla---

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2005 10:24:57

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Modern Flamenco Tones,chords .ect. (in reply to miguel)

Probably if you learn some jazz harmony, you would understand how they transform the traditional chords into the "modern" ones.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2005 15:00:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14837
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Modern Flamenco Tones,chords .ect. (in reply to miguel)

quote:

With modern Flamenco rarely you will see a piece using the "traditional" Chords, and tones.

Actually it is there, it is just "decorated" or colored by other things around it, and also the main difference between modern style and traditional, is the interpretation of the rhythm, the synchopations.

"Antonia" has a special sound because it is in the tones of Taranta (F#). Gerardo Nunez also had a Taranta on "Jucal", that goes into the compas of Solea por Bulerias. Those two pieces make a good comparison. Sanlucar has a Tangos on his last album (Locura). Also Vicente has a bulerias in that tonality on "Ciudad".

It's not necessarily going to help you understand the "modern" style flamenco better by learning music theory or real jazz harmony. The flamenco players themselves don't really think that way when composing. It is still in their ears and fingers, just like the traditional style. For example, Mario Escudero's "Impetu" has just about all the same chords you would find in modern "por medio" type playing (A phrygian). What makes it sound "traditional" is the way it is played, the way the rhythm is interpreted etc.

Alot of "jazzy" sounds in Rondena are created simply by playing normal chord shapes in an altered tunning. Also, a lot of modern players are working w/ the key of D# (Vicente has like 8 pieces in this tonality), which has opened up doors for new progressions, based on special fingerings. But still, the stripped down harmonic analysis reveals the same old traditional type chord resolutions.

Hope this helps.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2005 22:02:27

miguel

Posts: 56
Joined: Apr. 20 2004

RE: Modern Flamenco Tones,chords .ect. (in reply to miguel)

Hi

Thanks for the advice Mike and Ricardo, I have also been trying to work out how the **** modulation works

Like Vicente Amigo does in "Cordoba(solea)", he "modulates" from Eb to E"Por Arriba", But i'm slowly understanding it.

regards
Miguel

_____________________________

<<No hay música más rica ni más viva en todo europa>> ---Manuel de Falla---

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2005 9:46:10

Ricardo

Posts: 14837
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Modern Flamenco Tones,chords .ect. (in reply to miguel)

quote:

Like Vicente Amigo does in "Cordoba(solea)", he "modulates" from Eb to E"Por Arriba", But i'm slowly understanding it.

yeah that one really jumps out at you. Personally I didn't find it all that convincing, but I understand why he wanted to bookend the solo.

From E phyr. to D# he uses a special fingering for the E chord so it gives you the E maj7. In phrygian the II chord functions as dominant, so that helps to pull our ear towards D# phryg. At the end it is strange. He takes the same Emaj7 shape and slides it back a fret, so it is Ebmaj7. It implies a D phrygian tonality shift, but instead the next chord goes to the relative major chord, Bb maj. (That would be like faking out in a normal Solea, moving from F maj chord to C maj instead of E). The Bb moves smoothly to the F chord which normally would be a dominant 7th chord (like moving from C to G7 in normal Solea), but he cleverly throws in a B natural (#4) note into the chord, which is the characteristic "lydian" note, forcing the "dominant II chord" sound, which brings us back to E phrygian. One note did it.

Vicente's suave movements and style make it morph smoothly, but I am not sure this would be such a convincing movement w/ a more aggressive rhythmic style of playing. In flamenco it is ok to just modulate without a long progression, just jump right in. But usually a II chord or V chord works the best.
So Cordoba was:

Begginnng: Am,Cmaj7,Fmaj7,E(b9) /Am7,Cmaj7,Emaj7,D#(b9)

Ending:Emaj7,Bmaj7,E,D#(b9) /Emaj7,Ebmaj7-Bbmaj7,Fmaj(#4),E(b9)

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2005 2:56:51

miguel

Posts: 56
Joined: Apr. 20 2004

RE: Modern Flamenco Tones,chords .ect. (in reply to miguel)

Man Ricardo your great

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

You have a great knowledge of theory, and that information is exactly the explanation I was looking for.

Regards
Miguel

_____________________________

<<No hay música más rica ni más viva en todo europa>> ---Manuel de Falla---

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2005 7:28:25