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El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

Does finger lengh affect your playing? 
People.
I have a question and a problem and a theory etc. that I need some feedback on, if poss.
It is no secret to many people here and around the world that I am really, really bad at tremolo, and other stuff as well.
But what I want to know is if there is any connection between finger lengh and ability ( or usefulness ) of playing.
I have noticed that my M, finger seems a lot longer than the others
What I mean is I can do picado , as best I can with I, M, but its not that much different using I, A, possibly because I , and A fingers are more the same lengh, making it more even, So if I do a picado run without thinking too much ( easy for me :) its mainly I, M, but the A finger kicks in from time to time ,
This happens with some types of rasgueardo , there is one that is used wihich is a continuos P(up) M(down) P(down) .repeat.....
but once again I find it more natural to make it P(up) A(down) P(down) .repeat.....
So here's the thing , ¿do better players have more evenly mathched finger lengh? or is this just some kind of elaboate excuse I am inventing to have an excuse for being such a bad guitarrist :) ? or both
To this I add a pic of my hand and ask others from the really bad to the fantastic players for comment or even add a pic for comparison.
Although my tremolo is improving it is very slow and I wonder how fingers affect it all.
Thank you



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 12:52:28
 
GerryR

 

Posts: 23
Joined: Jul. 18 2011
 

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
This is quite interesting, but I think from the right-hand point of view, it is a matter of practice to train the muscles to do their thing. However, I just ran across this on another website:

"....I often tell my students and customers that shorter guitar scales are one of the best approaches to mastering the instrument. Passing from one scale to another requires very little time to adjust if any at all. The difference between 650 and 630 is quite dramatic. There is almost a 1 fret difference towards the 19th fret. That is a lot especially for those who have small hands and a limited stretch...."

(http://www.mangore.com/bellucci_guitars.html?gclid=CMu1io_5vaoCFUlx5QodI2d37A)

This makes sense to me, as there are just some stretches that I cannot make with my left hand, and I have to modify my playing (if you can call it playing!) accordingly. (Wish I had $3500 + to "try" one)

My right hand is very much like yours. I think that most really good players were almost born with a guitar in their hands, and were able to practice hours on end to get to their high level of competence. If you look at pictures of Segovia's hands, he had short, somewhat plump, fingers. Your hand looks average to me.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 13:53:46
 
Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
(http://www.mangore.com/bellucci_guitars.html?gclid=CMu1io_5vaoCFUlx5QodI2d37A)

This makes sense to me, as there are just some stretches that I cannot make with my left hand, and I have to modify my playing (if you can call it playing!) accordingly. (Wish I had $3500 + to "try" one)

No you don't GerryR, no you don't, run away and forget you ever saw that site lol.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 14:54:26
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
Do fingers get fatter over the years? I mean when i look at Pacos old and recent fingers...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 14:57:02
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
quote:

as there are just some stretches that I cannot make with my left hand, and I have to modify my playing

well yes I was talking about the right hand as oppose to the left , i get used to long stretches by putting the capo on 1st or 2nd and playing the difficult part then taking it off after a week and it seems OK then..

quote:

Do fingers get fatter over the years?
again interesting , over the years everything gets fatter ......

quote:

right-hand point of view, it is a matter of practice to train the muscles to do their thing
this is more the point , if it is easier to train the fingers to do this if they are more evenly lenghed, so GerryR if your right hand is similar to mine How is your tremolo? and picado ?, surely the same hand type would produce the same problems? of course the brain controlling the hand is different........

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 15:09:34
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
quote:

Does finger lengh affect your playing? 


I never tried with some different finger length,..did you?

Not important topic. There are brilliant players with all kind of finger length. And don´t listen to the "Paco has this kind of finger-length-which is perfect-boys"..they are talking nonsense. (Sorry Deniz xD)

Question answered. Close the thread.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 15:53:19
 
gaash

 

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul. 29 2011
 

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

quote:

Does finger lengh affect your playing? 


I never tried with some different finger length,..did you?

Not important topic. There are brilliant players with all kind of finger length. And don´t listen to the "Paco has this kind of finger-length-which is perfect-boys"..they are talking nonsense. (Sorry Deniz xD)

Question answered. Close the thread.


This.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 16:14:20
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
quote:

Question answered. Close the thread.


Damn it that just leaves me with ,..... I cant do it cos' I'm a really bad player !!!

and Doitsujin has just killed my only chance of having an excuse
I would shake my fist at you ,.but I cant do that fist thing properly cos of my finger length ,,,,......

I still think theres something in this, however small.........

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 16:57:29
 
GerryR

 

Posts: 23
Joined: Jul. 18 2011
 

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to Sean) 
quote:

No you don't GerryR, no you don't, run away and forget you ever saw that site lol.


Sean,
Would you explain in a little more detail. Thanks.

Rico,
I'm not too good at anything, yet. But there is hope. Some years back I had taken Classical lessons (about 3 years worth) and my right hand was never really an issue. However, my left hand has always been my main hurdle. Long stretches and barre cords are (still are) a challenge.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 18:14:39
 
odinz

Posts: 407
Joined: May 26 2010
From: Sarpsborg,Norway

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
just gotta say this, but Rico, want to trade hands?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 19:28:48
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
quote:

but Rico, want to trade hands?


No , cos you'd want your own one back after the first crappy Rasgueado and lack of tremolo......


In serious, there has been many studies relating digital ratio especially of I , and M, fingers to hormones and development.. this also relates to Phsycological studies , of how you percieve the world ...which would effect your musical ability and how you develop it ,...or not....
There is also a geographic and ethnic variation...and this also effects physical and competative behaviour........
There are many studies of this nature that can be read about and easily googled ..
However I didnt really want to get involved with this at first I was just looking for a bit of feedback with which to try and tie a few things together..........

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 8 2011 20:05:15
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
What matters is angle of attack. If you curl your fingers, all become the same length as the string sees em. If you play more straight, then you will notice the awkward problems of the middle finger being longer. The way to play with fingers curved is a big concern for some folks it seems, and affects wrist hand arm and thumb position. Thumb to the side, flat wrist, flat hand, straight on, curved fingers, illusion of middle joint powering strokes, proper nail shape is flat, etc, all related.

See recent post about arp postion where many flamenco teachers seem to advocate the thumb out to the side (hence curved fingers, hence easier tremolo etc....)

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2011 6:24:40
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
Ricardo, Yes , I for one know all about that..I am constantly changing my arm position and can't seem to get a comfortable one.
As to the curl of the fingers then of course if the middle finger is a lot longer it will have to curl more for the three nails to be in line, which makes that finger work in a slightly different manner.
Also affected by your sitting position, height of guitar etc. I for one cannot sit with my legs crossed for a long period of time as one leg goes to sleep.
I do put my right foot on top of my left foot , thats ok alll day , or put my right heel back on the chair leg , depending on the chair.
The thing I see is that whatever you do has to feel natural to you yourself, I could not sit in the position of another player unless it felt right for me . I think perhaps instead of changing to be the same , it is worth exploring what can be done with what you have and making minimum changes to exploit things a bit.
for example I see no problem doing picado with mainly 2 fingers and a third one kicking in from time to time so long as 1) its sounds good and 2) it feels natural.
would you agree?
I am reading the arp position artical now..........

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2011 11:24:54
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
Though prepared for possibly convincing news to the contrary, I never expected much from morphologically based deductions.

So far they appear to only feed the old & handy request for shortcuts / superstitious categorizing, in opposition to the burdensome requirements of reasonable observation.

( My sister doctorated summa cum laude decades ago on her thesis that fingerprints could indicate chronical deseases, without - as far as I know - any practice of it sustaining today. Just saying.)

Like with the asumption that prehistorical relicts of 2D:4D digit ratio were to indicate prenatal exposure to androgenes, hence more agression in adulthood.
Which again is being equaled with prehistorically higher competition and promiscuity as alleged consequence.

This is jumping from one assumption to another.
Where is the back-up for the claim that monogamous sexual life was meaning less competition; the more as occupancy equals sexual "territorial defence"?
And what about the unconsidered option of initial promiscuity resulting into just the more functional monogamy in an individual´s life time?
-

I don´t give much on attempted equalization of extremities to inner physiology, lesser even to mental characteristics.

Had I done so however, by now I might have been with one passion less, besides.
For, some self-deemed specialist ( and diviner ) took my teenage hand once, and after a look claimed that my hands weren´t suited for guitar playing.
Glad to have not listened / not put aside the instrument.
-

What I can agree too is that the more even in length RH fingers are, the more handy they might come in for guitar playing. But one shouldn´t pay attention / not let oneself be discouraged by such in the first place.

As mentioned above, curled fingers shall equal out ( which I wasn´t aware of; thanks Ricardo!) and even more: their different lenghts will be much compensated by lateral planting / slight turn of the wrist.

I recommend avoiding perpendicular posture of the fingertips, which will only introduce motoric detouring / needless extensor activity ( independently of how well one might overcome it ).
As long as the ellbow is rested correctly, the hand will drop in the right way by itself ( with a slight lower arm / wrist turn towards inside )/ without extra efforts for fingers angled starting position.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2011 12:50:04
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to Ruphus) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus
( My sister doctorated summa cum laude decades ago on her thesis that fingerprints could indicate chronical deseases, without - as far as I know - any practice of it sustaining today. Just saying.)


I wouldnt say this too loudly *cough, cough* Gutenberg.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2011 13:02:30
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
quote:

to only feed the old & handy request for shortcuts / superstitious categorizing, in opposition to the burdensome requirements of reasonable observation.


Not quite with this one as the 2D:4D digit ratio is a well known an proved observation
in males the 4D will tend to be longer than the 2D as in females they are approximatly the same or the 2D will be slightly longer,. just compare your hand to the nearest girl to you right now.
Thinking about this and the arm angle girls should have an advantage !
Yes they are related to hormones and this will in turn affect how you think and percieve the world,
However as I mentioned there has already been many studies on this instead of me writing a huge note on this anyone interested could start at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio

good ole wiki is always a place to begin ..

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2011 13:13:45
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to El Kiko) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rico_Kiko
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio

good ole wiki is always a place to begin ..


Yep
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

or

correlation!=causation

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2011 13:19:37
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to XXX) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rico_Kiko
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio

good ole wiki is always a place to begin ..


Yep
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

or

correlation!=causation


Hehehe

Ya, Deniz,

Don´t know why everyone in the media was pronounciating this guy´s name "Gutenberg". It´s Guttenberg.

My sister was none of the guild whose path including the academic one is being plastered beforehand. She worked extremely hard on her education, and was even kept as assistant years beyond obligatory.

Just to do her justice.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2011 13:40:57
 
Gummy

Posts: 495
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
From: North Carolina, USA

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to XXX) 
I read something related to that(causation point) this morning. Something like "I get it, the sun heats us up in the day and so the moon must cool us off at night..."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2011 14:54:40
 
gaash

 

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul. 29 2011
 

RE: Does finger lengh affect your pl... (in reply to Ruphus) 
The correlation does not imply causation (and A=>B does not mean B=>A) are important but often overused.

Most basketball players are tall. The conclusion should not be "height doesn't matter because correlation does not imply causation" The right conclusion is that, height does not NECESSARILY matter, but it seems pretty likely that it matters.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2011 16:57:31
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