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Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pieces: Malaguena and Recuerdos de la Alhambra   You are logged in as Guest
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BarkellWH

Posts: 3461
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pieces:... 

Do any Foro members learn and enjoy playing non-flamenco Spanish pieces, just for a change of pace? Living in the Washington, DC area, it is my great good fortune to have Paco de Malaga as my guitar instructor. Paco is a very accomplished, first-rate guitarist and is the long-time doyenne of the Washington, DC flamenco scene. I have been working with Paco for several years, and although the focus is flamenco, he has taught me pieces such as Malaguena, with its almost infinite variations. I find it great fun to play, and one can add a flamenco touch to what is basically a non-flamenco piece, and that adds an interesting aspect to playing it.

Another piece I have attempted learning is Francisco Tarrega's tremolo classic "Recuerdos de la Alhambra." Again, it is a non-flamenco piece that would be great fun (and, to my mind, is very difficult) to master. I am nowhere near playing it well. I can play flamenco tremolo (piami) pretty solidly now, but, oddly, I find the flamenco tremolo so ingrained (muscle memory, I guess) that I find it difficult to switch over to the classical tremolo, which is required for Recuerdos. Does anyone else have difficulty switching from flamenco to classical tremolo? Or is this just something that requires practice to reach a point where one is equally adept at both. Alternatively, has anyone tried learning Recuerdos using the flamenco tremolo?

Cheers,

Bill

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Who tried to hustle the East."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2011 14:02:37
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

add a flamenco touch to what is basically a non-flamenco piece

I dont why you think malagueña isnt flamenco. There are a couple of classical versions of Malagueña ( eg. Lecuona)but its root is a flamenco palo (from malaga)with many variations. Malagueña got turned more into a mariachi piece in south America and that definately isnt flamenco. Check out versions by paco peña and paco de lucia.
This link really demonstrates a great flamenco malgueña



Recuerdos is a piece that takes years to sound really good. You have to pratice slowly to get the gap between all 4 tremelo notes even. I have tried playing it with flamenco tremelo but rhythmically its stronger on the original. I used to find it difficult to swap between the 2 tremelos. I learned classical first then flamenco, then I found it hard to switch to classical again. Now I dont seem to have a problem switching but again its several years of getting used to it

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2011 14:19:14
 
vuduchyld

 

Posts: 170
Joined: Feb. 20 2011
 

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to BarkellWH

What's the difference between classical tremolo and flamenco tremolo?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2011 14:47:30
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to vuduchyld

quote:

What's the difference between classical tremolo and flamenco tremolo?


Classical is pami, flamenco is piami (a quintuplet).

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2011 15:53:12
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Alternatively, has anyone tried learning Recuerdos using the flamenco tremolo?


I learned it with classical tremolo, but I used to practise flamenco tremolo with it, since flamenco doesn't really have any tremolo studies (unless you count Sabicas & Escudero's Nana).

Everybody in the classical world plays Recuerdos. Why not try Eduardo Sainz de la Maza’s Campanas del Alba?



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2011 16:08:45
 
chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

Campanas del Alba is harder than Recuerdos.

I heard (from some sketchball at a bar a long time ago) that Tarrega played with the Flamenco tremolo.

I play a lot of the classical guitar stuff. Recuerdos, Capricho Arabe, Asturias, Cadiz, En los Trigales, etc. Really great stuff and working on it really adds subtlety to one's playing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2011 16:15:39
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to chester

quote:

Campanas del Alba is harder than Recuerdos.


You think so? I would have said the other way around. Those triplet slurs in Recuerdos are a bastard.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2011 16:24:31
 
vuduchyld

 

Posts: 170
Joined: Feb. 20 2011
 

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

Classical is pami, flamenco is piami (a quintuplet).


Ah...thank you!

Seems like pami would be easier to keep steady at tempo.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2011 16:52:03
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

...since flamenco doesn't really have any tremolo studies (unless you count Sabicas & Escudero's Nana).


In print, there was Rafael Marín's book published in 1902. He proposed a few different kinds, including a quintuplet variety although fingered pmami. In recordings, guitarists spent decades chasing after Ramón Montoya's tremolos (Niño Ricardo, los de Badajoz, etc.) A lot of Paco de Lucía's tremolos have been used as exercises, and there have been others by more modern players.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2011 16:55:37
 
estebanana

Posts: 9380
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Paco de Malaga as my guitar instructor. Paco is a very accomplished, first-rate guitarist and is the long-time doyenne of the Washington, DC flamenco scene


I lived in DC for two years and took lessons with Paco. He's a great teacher. If I lived there I would still go hang with him and take lessons.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2011 16:56:01
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3461
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I lived in DC for two years and took lessons with Paco. He's a great teacher. If I lived there I would still go hang with him and take lessons.


Paco is still a great teacher and a wonderful resource for learning about all things flamenco. Not only does he personally know the great players and luthiers, he knows the history of flamenco and all the subtle nuances and influences various artists had on both their contemporaries and those who followed. I'm sure you know that in his early teens Paco studied flamenco guitar under Paco de Lucia's father, as well as his brother Ramon de Algeciras. Paco is a wonderful teacher, resource, and friend. And that he puts up with me as a student demonstrates his infinite patience in working with flawed material.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 28 2011 18:23:57
 
chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to Paul Magnussen

quote:

You think so? I would have said the other way around. Those triplet slurs in Recuerdos are a bastard.


Campanas has that crazy moving tremolo line. I've honestly never tried it but will give it a go now that you've sparked my interest!

Thanks for that video, btw. I like it more than Kaori Muraji's austere version.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2011 0:04:09
 
chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to BarkellWH

ALSO - I think the mother of all tremolo pieces is Barrios' Un Sueno en la Floresta.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2011 0:07:04
 
gbv1158

 

Posts: 410
Joined: May 29 2009
From: Italy

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to Pimientito

quote:

I have tried playing it with flamenco tremelo but rhythmically its stronger on the original


No doubt, Recuerdos goes only with classic tremolo.

ciao,
Giambattista

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2011 13:01:51
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3461
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to BarkellWH

Many thanks for all the comments and video links regarding Malaguena, Recuerdos, and other tremolo pieces, as well as flamenco vs. classical tremolo.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2011 13:31:21
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3461
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Playing Non-Flamenco Spanish Pie... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

I lived in DC for two years and took lessons with Paco. He's a great teacher. If I lived there I would still go hang with him and take lessons.


Stephen,

This morning I had my weekly lesson with Paco de Malaga, and I conveyed your sentiments to him. He was very grateful for your kind words and wished you well.

I don't know if you are aware of it, but Paco sold the Guitar Gallery about four years ago and gives lessons in his home now. His wife Ana continues giving dance lessons in their home as well. The fellow who bought the Guitar Gallery, Guillermo Juan Christie, is the owner of "The Flamenco Connection."

I cannot praise Paco enough. Not only have I learned (and continue learning) flamenco guitar from him, I have also learned so much of the history and culture of flamenco. He personally knows all the major flamenco guitarists (as well as the luthiers) in Spain, including Paco de Lucia, and how they developed their technique. A couple of years ago, King Juan Carlos (via the Spanish Ambassador in Washington) conferred upon Paco and Ana membership in the "Orden de Isabela la Catolica," in recognition of their presentation of Spanish culture in the U.S. Paco is Washington, DC's flamenco gem. It is my great good fortune to count him as a teacher and a friend.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 1 2011 17:13:20
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