alegrias in E and in C

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mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

alegrias in E and in C

I have a question about Alegrias.
If I play alegrias in E without capo, where should I place the capo to play the same tune but in C ?

Thks.

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2011 13:57:02

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to mezzo)

Just think of the capo as the first finger in a bar chord.
To play C as a bar chord your fret the 8th fret. Thats where your capo goes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2011 14:09:31

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to mezzo)

If you play a C chord without a capo, you'll probably play a C on the fifth string third fret. Put the capo on so that you're playing E at the fifth string seventh fret.

EDIT: If you want to use the same E-based chords in the key of C, do as Pimientito says. If you want to play C-based chords in the key of E, do as I've suggested.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2011 14:10:12

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to mezzo)

Capo 4th fret.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2011 14:48:12

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to NormanKliman)

Ok i think i understand. Thanks

What i want to do is the same that the por medio/por arriba capo equivalent.
0 por medio = 5 por arriba.
Now i realize that 5 = A bar chord.

I just searched on youtube some Alegrias cante in order to figure the chords progression. But i just have a lot trouble finding some in E. The majority of what i came across were in C.
Don't know why i thought C = for Caracoles

Now i think, the E is more for solo piece

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2011 14:55:07

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to XXX)

quote:

Capo 4th fret.

now i'm officially confused

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2011 14:56:38

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to XXX)

quote:

Capo 4th fret.

Thats not a very helpful answer to a beginners question.

Deniz is saying if you put the capo on 4th fret and play a Cmajor chord, it sounds the same as playing in E without the capo.

If you want to transpose the Emajor piece to Cmajor you either have to learn different chords OR capo the 8th fret and play your original chords higher up the neck.
Its a good idea though to learn how to play Alegrias in C, A and E in the first position and then you can play most songs with capo on 2cd or 3rd fret to suit the singer.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2011 15:26:27

Morante

Posts: 2202
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to mezzo)

Tienes que aprender el diapasón. Hay tres inversiones básicos: es decir que, con un barré, se pueden tocar por todo el diapasón. Son los acordes de C, E, A. Para acompañar el cante, debes saber tocar por los tres inversiones.

Hoy, en Cádiz, Alegrías se toca en C. Las Cantiñas se tocan en E. Nada se toca en A. (Hablo del costumbre actual.)

El baile por Alegrías se acompaña en E. Porque, normalmente, los cantaores meten muchas cantiñas, y más importante, eso felicita el cambio a bulerías de Cádiz (la que se toca en E).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2011 15:51:10

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to Morante)

Pimientito te agradezco l'aclaramiento.
Morante gracias por las precisiones. Tengo mucho curro por delante...

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2011 16:17:20

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to XXX)

Well i put my hands on the guitar and it seems Deniz gives me the info I was looking for.

Here's a quote from Tio J. from an old 2007 post

quote:

Here is a free lesson from my site. I hope it helps some of you in your quest to become better, more complete flamenco guitarists. This lesson covers the accompaniment of a particular letra (verse) of Alegrias in a more or less basic way. It's concept can be applied to many, many other letras. The study of cante accompaniment is key in understanding how melodies are created in a natural way and will reinforce a players commitment to developing good rhythmic skills. A very special thanks to Felix de Lola for providing the cante.
Enjoy!

Normal Tempo
http://www.caminosflamencos.com/algL1F.mov
Slower Tempo
http://www.caminosflamencos.com/algL1S.mov
Counted
http://www.caminosflamencos.com/algL1C.mov
Right Hand
http://www.caminosflamencos.com/algL1R.mov
Left Hand
http://www.caminosflamencos.com/algL1L.mov
Commentary
http://www.caminosflamencos.com/algL1X.mov
Score/Tablature
http://www.caminosflamencos.com/algL1T.htm
....
Okay, here is the cante only file.......
http://www.caminosflamencos.com/algL1V.mov

if i want to play what J. is doing (1st fret in E) in C, it seems that i need to place the capo at 5th.
In order to play the C chord progression for Alegria (C G7 F).

Just want to say thanks to Jason for this material. I really hope his situation here is not permanent and maybe he will be allowed to return soon and provide some goods advices...

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 16 2011 21:50:12

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to mezzo)

In what the key is he singing E or C ?
Is there a difference in the cante while singing in C or in E ?
(I specify just in case : I'm not asking about the guitar accomp key here

)

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 17 2011 9:40:31

Morante

Posts: 2202
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to mezzo)

Diego canta en mi (E), pero no tiene nada que ver. La guitarra ( de Pedro Bacán, creo yo) se toca en Do (C) al quinto, lo que es normal. El cante se acompaña, casi siempre, en Do: el tono del cante se busca con la cejilla.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 17 2011 15:39:51

malakka

Posts: 170
Joined: Jan. 14 2009

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to Morante)

La guitarra es de Pedro Pena, El es un primo de Pedro Bacan.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 17 2011 19:31:23

Morante

Posts: 2202
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to malakka)

quote:

La guitarra es de Pedro Pena, El es un primo de Pedro Bacan.

Gracias, malakka. Me faltaba las gafas! Pedro es un guitarrista muy flamenco y echamos de menos el gran talento de Pedro Bacan.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 17 2011 19:41:34

malakka

Posts: 170
Joined: Jan. 14 2009

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to Morante)

De nada, Morante. I like the playing of Pedro Bacan very much. I have his solo cd, Alurican and a couple of cd's where he is accompanying. I have a cd that was made from a vinyl record of Pedro Pena as well. He plays guitar and sings - it is supposed to be a homenaje to Diego del Gastor.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 17 2011 21:38:04

elgreco

Posts: 247
Joined: Nov. 24 2010
From: San Francisco CA

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to Morante)

Priceless.

quote:

Gracias, malakka.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2011 2:18:48

malakka

Posts: 170
Joined: Jan. 14 2009

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to elgreco)

quote:

Priceless.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2011 5:04:42

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: alegrias in E and in C (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Diego canta en mi (E)

Vale! gracias. I think i understand it now

Sorry if my questions sounds dumbee, but this C = E accompaniment was something i realized only a few days ago (while looking in yutu).
Maybe this is a super_obvious thing for most members here, but I lack theoritical and experientical stuff

Anyway the funny thing is that i searched on the foro database before asking but i found nothing interesting.
Than today i search for something else, and i enter a word that has nothing to do with this subject and i found a 2006 thread where Maestro Ricardo post this comment :

quote:

...You play Alegrias, Mirabra, Caracoles, Romeras (all are in the family of Cantinas), in whatever key the singer wants depending on his or her range. Deeper voices work for C major, E major for middle voices, and women usually sing in A major, all with possible capo. Cmajor capo 5 or E major capo 1 are the same key, so the guitarist has that choice (for example). It depends a lot on the "macho" letra that is sung last and has a wide range of notes. For baile, it is more typical to play E major, where as a cante solo would be in C major (giving the singer more room to go high)...

Damn!! what i need to do is to compil Ricado's post, print it and made a book

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2011 15:00:35