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estebanana

Posts: 9358
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

Cante in notation - 
Does anyone now of a source for any cante melodies written out in musical notation? Does not matter which clef they are written in.

I know that sounds like an unflamenco question, but I'm looking for it to save time before doing it myself. I'm interested in writing out cante' melodies and arranging them for cello. I'll transcribe them from recordings, but I'm always pressed for time so this would help speed up my progress.

Thanks if anyone knows about this..

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2011 17:22:06
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Cante in notation - (in reply to estebanana) 
The problem with notating cante as opposed to guitar, is that cante is frequently in microtones. And while some people have experimented with microtonal notation, I think they would have a hell of a time making it work with cante.

http://www.bikexprt.com/music/notation.htm

Ramon

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2011 17:46:18
 
estebanana

Posts: 9358
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Cante in notation - (in reply to estebanana) 
It's done in classical Turkish music for the oud and the vocal music. To my ear a great deal of flamenco does not get any more out there than doubled accidentals, double sharps- double flats. Which is similar to notating maqam. Lots of Western classical composers do it routinely today. I think lot of flamenco singers just plain sing out of tune because they force their voices and call it microtonal. Very few singers flamenco or otherwise have enough pitch control to be in charge of true microtones past quarter notes, in my opinion.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2011 21:58:29
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Cante in notation - (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

Does anyone now of a source for any cante melodies written out in musical notation?


IIRC there are some in Lola Fernández’s Flamenco Music Theory:

http://www.amazon.com/Flamenco-Music-Theory-Instructional/dp/8460935140/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304719855&sr=1-1

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2011 22:12:53
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Cante in notation - (in reply to estebanana) 
quote:

I think lot of flamenco singers just plain sing out of tune because they force their voices and call it microtonal. Very few singers flamenco or otherwise have enough pitch control to be in charge of true microtones past quarter notes, in my opinion.


I have to respectfully disagree with this. In my opinion not only are cantaors singing true microtones, but with regard to pitch control and vocal control I know of no genre of singing where the singer displays more control.

I have read accounts of opera singers, who certainly know a thing or two about vocal control, listening to a cantaor and marveling at the vocal control of the singer.

Ramon

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2011 23:06:21
 
estebanana

Posts: 9358
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Cante in notation - (in reply to estebanana) 
I said few singers, not that some can't do this. I don't hear a lot of singing as really as true microtonal singing myself, I hear it more as tempering scales to give tension to certain degrees or sections of the scale. I think of it as pitch inflection within a context of diatonic music. But that is my interpretation based on the awareness of the history of scale temperament Western music. To me microtonal music is based solely on microtones. Flamenco seems to weave in and out of diatonic scales and the spaces between those notes. I think it's a semantic distinction. Not something I'm going to specialize in. I've heard people argue about this before and I'm not really up for taking it to the firing squad wall.

What I'm looking for are some basic written out melodies for cante that fit into diatonic scales, there's enough flamenco that does not split tonal hairs that it can be notated. And then the basic melody can be pushed or pulled to give tension to different parts. Celli don't have frets.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2011 23:54:39
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Cante in notation - (in reply to estebanana) 
Yes, I agree – it's perhaps a semantic distinction. If we define microtonal singing as entirely microtonal, than flamenco doesn't fall into that category. It does weave in and out.

If you can find some musical notation for cante, it will at best give an approximation of the melody, lacking the cantaor's manipulation of the melodic line. Somewhat analogous to notated flamenco guitar music, which gives the notes, but cannot be made to sound like flamenco merely by playing the notes.

Ramon

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2011 2:39:11
 
edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Cante in notation - (in reply to estebanana) 
David Leiva in his 4 volumes of "Método de Cante y Baile Flamenco y su acompañamiento" has cante notation

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Ed

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Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2011 9:52:12
 
changue

 

Posts: 187
Joined: Aug. 31 2010
From: London

RE: Cante in notation - (in reply to estebanana) 
Flamenco World have this Camaron pack that includes "algunos de sus temas mostrando las líneas melódicas del cante". I have no idea if it is any good but I thought it was worth mentioning.
http://www.flamenco-world.com/tienda/producto/pack-especial.-camaron-para-guitarristas-(2-libros)/5349/

Good luck

Changue
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 7 2011 19:09:00
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