Creating a set list

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Creating a set list

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kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

Creating a set list

Hi,
I was wandering how you people create a setlist when you have to play in front of an audience wich is out there to have a good time.

From my background as a dj I always had a thumb of rule to have the next record +2 semitones above the one is playing at the moment to get an energy boost and choose a record -2 semitones (or 1) to let them have a break. (eg. from Cminor to Dminor to have a boost)

Is this something you take in account when putting a tracklist together and to set a mood on stage?
If not, what do you take in account?

cheers
koz

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2010 11:46:32

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1900
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Creating a set list (in reply to kozz)

interesting and important question!
all of the above do matter, but you also have to take account the kind of audience you're expecting...if we play for a more serious audience we usually like to open with something deep, a taranto or soleá, even rondena, and like to vary the moods...one upbeat piece, one deeper...but it's important to finish in a good mood, preferably alegrías or a bulería followed by fiesta...
to me it's important not to play pieces that are in the same key, which to me is sometimes not convenient because i have to move the capo and/or tune to an alternate tuning, but it's a small price to pay...if the capo does stay in position, it's always a "normal" piece first, say bulerías por medio, after that a tango in Eb so it's completely different...
in my band we have many dancers and in our standard set we have music only / dance / music / dance etc...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2010 13:26:43

Ricardo

Posts: 14897
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Creating a set list (in reply to kozz)

The guitar can play in only one absolute key, but thanks to the strings that ring, cejilla, and altered tuning options, the "aire" can be different every time. For singers, you find they tend to play in only one small range, so only playing for them "por medio" for example can get monotonous.

Only thing I think about in program is the way the strings might stretch with altered tuning. Nuñez uses altered tunings a lot so I see him first do pieces with low Eb (solea por buleria), then D in a group (buleria tango Rondena/bulerias etc). Then low C (usually has two of em), then finally low B (siguiriyas). Idea being to gradually let the bass string settle rather then jumping down to that low B right off. But this is just an idea.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2010 14:12:09

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Creating a set list (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ)

quote:

interesting and important question!
all of the above do matter, but you also have to take account the kind of audience you're expecting...if we play for a more serious audience we usually like to open with something deep, a taranto or soleá, even rondena, and like to vary the moods...one upbeat piece, one deeper...but it's important to finish in a good mood, preferably alegrías or a bulería followed by fiesta...

Thanks Jimi,
thats what is interesting, and puzzles me a bit how to translate it to a live performance.
Individual songs have a certain mood, but does song X perserve the same mood when it is played in a live set between song 1 and 3, or between 5 and 7.

So if I understand correctly you guys use the overall palo intentioned mood as a guide?

quote:

Only thing I think about in program is the way the strings might stretch with altered tuning. Nuñez uses altered tunings a lot so I see him first do pieces with low Eb (solea por buleria), then D in a group (buleria tango Rondena/bulerias etc). Then low C (usually has two of em), then finally low B (siguiriyas). Idea being to gradually let the bass string settle rather then jumping down to that low B right off. But this is just an idea.

Thanks Ricardo,
I didn't thought about alternate tunings, that's an interesting point.
Never played with alternate tunings myself, but when I make a relationship towards the dj-stuff, it can be quite interesting to play six tango's in a row, but with alternate tunings, without getting monotonous.
Ok, six is a bit to much ofcourse, but in the techno scene the records are all more or less the same, but when played together in a certain order it can be quite uplifting.

The idea of Nunez going down seems to me the same thing as what I described above. Using the circle of 5ths, if it can be said so, to gradually change moods without getting "off", and have the palo determine the energy.

From a dj point of view I can describe why one song will work after another. If song X is in relation +2 semitones higher than the one playing, song X is considered as uplifting.
But if the same song X is -2 semitones in relation to the one playing, than it is making the dancefloor ease a bit.
So the song is still the same, but has different outcomes.

Would that also be one factor, as there are many, that make a concert good, or outstanding?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2010 15:11:56

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1900
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Creating a set list (in reply to kozz)

yeah we use the palos as a guide and of course it may vary there too, because we have minor bulerías and major too, cool spb and very sad spb...our goal is to entertain and to reach people's emotions...there are several ways to do that, i like to put them on a wave up-down, but of course you could build it up gradually...like seguiriya-soleá-tarantos-spb-guajiras-tangos-alegrías-bulerías or something like that...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 18 2010 23:01:59

Chiste de Gales

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 13 2009

RE: Creating a set list (in reply to kozz)

If you are doing anything in an altered tuning, make sure to do that tuning quietly. When the audience had been enjoying your playing, it can really ruin the mood for them to hear you messing with the tuning.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2010 13:50:27

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Creating a set list (in reply to Chiste de Gales)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chiste de Gales

If you are doing anything in an altered tuning, make sure to do that tuning quietly. When the audience had been enjoying your playing, it can really ruin the mood for them to hear you messing with the tuning.

I personally love the sound when an instrument is being tuned. The guitar as well as in classic concerts when orchestras tune their violins, etc. Its a real treat, at least to my ears.

But besides being it a necessary part of the performance, it also gives a certain "pro attitude" to the guitarrist IMO, as it is part of his expertise to be able to tune an instrument. It can only get a bit embarrassing if it takes too long

although sometimes the guitarrist is not to blame for that but the humidity of the room, or other things that can mess up a good tuning.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2010 14:12:33

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2010 16:58:40

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Creating a set list (in reply to kozz)

Its nice to see the different approaches.
Reading it I must admit I looked a bit narrow minded to it, too technical perhaps.
If you know your audience, that must be a great advantage...

The goal to play with the audience is great.
I can imagine that in smaller settings and bars you are more likely to get people involved in jaleos and palmas than in theather shows.

Last year when I was in Barcelona there was this small restaurant which turned every thursday evening into a flamenco bar.
You could really notice the difference between the people who were performing there, I can't recall there names anymore, but one evening everybody in the bar was involved whilst another time a singer got so lost in his misserable live that no mather what he sang, he seemed to die every minute. This was a real boring performance.
We almost got kicked out because when they finally played a tango, our hands got loose with some guys from Jerez, but if only eyes could kill.
Anyway afterwards, the guys from Jerez (Jiminez family) started to sing tangos and do palmas....that was just the best part of the evening.

I have no experience in playing in front of an audience, but what do you prefer?
Just playing your set and have appreciation from the audience, or have fun an have people involved?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 19 2010 21:50:41