Paco Pena-comments

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Paco Pena-comments

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Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

Paco Pena-comments

I recently acquired a Paco Pena double CD, half a "recital" of solo pieces, the other half segmented into Paco playing the pieces of Ramon Montoya and Nino Ricardo.

As I listened to Paco, a few random thoughts came to me:

1. the main reason Paco de Lucia sounds better than Pena is rhythm--PDL's sense of rhythm and how he accentuates it is simply on a different level than PP.

2. that being said, PP is a highly accomplished technical guitarist.

3. His duos, again, fall short of the gold standard accomplished by Paco's ensembles and recording work.

4. Fandangos de Huelva makes a dynamite guitar solo. Like Ron said--what's up with that, man? Why aren't more people playing them?

5. one of the pieces, "Cancion", is a Peteneras based on a theme popularized by Lorca. This is a beautiful piece.

6. It is official--I am "old school". Listening to this stuff makes me realize that I much prefer this era, roughly--maybe 1950-80 to broadly generalize. I really don't care for recent stuff very much (except for some exceptions, including the artistry of Vicente Amigo).

7. I am going to learn about every falseta on this record! Except for the bulerias. I don't think bulerias is PP's strength!

8. In his liner notes, it becomes obvoius that PP is not ashamed of being an exponent of the solo flamenco guitar. I think he feels that it is a worthwhile endeavor and an art form of itself. I saw PP last year, and about 1/3 of the show was solo, and the rest with various ensembles. I have to say that I enjoyed the duo and trio (guitars) the most, followed by the fin de fiesta, then the guitar and bailaor, and finally solo guitar...

9. PP believes that the two most important guitarists in flamenco have been Ramon Montoya and Nino Ricardo (he wrote this in 1987). I have only heard a little bit of Nino Ricardo and didn't care for his playing in the least. It's hard to believe there is a whole generation of players that idolized him.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2005 3:31:39

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Paco Pena-comments (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

well .Pdl idolize sabicas AND Niño Ricardo

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2005 4:56:39

Guest

RE: Paco Pena-comments (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Hola Miguel

quote:

I have only heard a little bit of Nino Ricardo and didn't care for his playing in the least. It's hard to believe there is a whole generation of players that idolized him.

I think it's about time you listen a bit more to El Niño. When I get tired of a bit of le - le -le etc, it's always him who saves my flamenco heart. I think he's pure Andaluzian soil and spirit, and a true monster playing siguiriyas. I put him high above Sabicas, even though he hasn't the charm of Sabicas. Ricardo is a lot more heavy, and is IMO one of the best exponents of the pena gitana. He's really strugling and turning out his inner soul when he plays.

I agree with your Paco Peña comments, especially on the rythm and bulerías comments. About Fandangos de Huelva, I'll only say that I find it very difficult to play. The rythm is difficult to master, and in general, they ask for a high level of tecnique in order to have this flow they need.

Nice playing
Anders

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2005 7:07:06

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Paco Pena-comments (in reply to Guest)

Anders;

We all have our preferences as to which flamenco guitarists are “the best”! Now my opinion is that Sabicas is better than Niño Ricardo. Perhaps I say that because I knew Sabicas personally and saw and heard him play very often. Then again my comments on this subject might be correct for any number of reasons.

My opinion and five cents will buy you a five-cent cup of coffee! That was a popular expression in the early 1960’s when coffee was five cents by the way.

Remember that Sabicas was also accompanist to many singers and dancers including Carmen Amaya. Sabicas developed many pieces of music, which he developed and modified constantly.

Sabicas spent most of his career promoting flamenco through his performances throughout the world. Both Niño Ricardo and Sabicas were true masters.

I have an interesting piece of flamenco music in which Niño Ricardo and Sabicas play together. The piece is called “La Catalina”. If anyone is interested in having a copy of this on mp3 format send me an e-mail. My understanding is that they did not practice this but played on stage. It is an old piece of Spanish music and well known. I also have some other recordings of these two great men playing guitar together.

By the way Fandangos de Huelva is one of my favorite palos to play. If you can sit in with other guitarists I think you can pick up the feeling. So many guitarists have a problem with the rhythm of this palo. There has to be a way to learn it that can be taught to others. Even listening to a traditional CD performance could be of assistance. I wish I could show you the basics. I learned it as an accompanist which I think made it easy for me. I did not have to learn it as a solo although I play it as a solo on occasion.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2005 17:51:30

Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco Pena-comments (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I actually think Paco Pena has a very driving and even bulerias, and rhythm in general. PDL does more w/ synchopation, which goes along w/ what you said, but still it is a different style. PP plays a lot of Sabicas and Ricardo stuff, cleaner and more rhythmically even than the orginal versions. I enjoy his take on it, it is different.

Sabicas was a better a better player in terms of speed and cleanlyness, but I like Ricardo's right hand style that he developed. Musically, I try not to compare these guys since they were both similar because of the times, and unique w/ there own compositional ideas. Old PDL has tons of Ricardo licks.

But since we are comparing old guys, I learned Mario Escudero's Impetu awhile back, and man it is a real work out. Harder than Sabicas/Ricardo/ or even modern stuff like Nunez. I recommend you guys to check that one out. Very advanced player for his time. Left hand wise, there is nothing new in modern bulerias por medio that you can't find in this piece.

Also Pepe Martinez was playing stuff by Sabicas, Ricardo, etc, but had a special groove and a cleaner technique than those guys, sort of like Pena. And Juanito Serrano's Autum Leaves por bulerias? He really kicked butt back then, forget flamenco/jazz fusion. I like it all really.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2005 20:11:11

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Paco Pena-comments (in reply to Ricardo)

Ricardo;

I agree with your comments 100%. I think once you get past the compas and technique that it is all a matter of style. Some people like one style over another. I think that all styles have something to offer that we can enjoy and learn from. My thought is to take what you have heard and create your own sound.

My love of flamenco will always be the so called traditional offerings. Especially those artists who make your heart race. They made it look so easy!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2005 1:30:32

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Paco Pena-comments (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

It's funny..I also recently acquired Juan Serrano album. I have a book of his, a huge tome full of falsetas. most of them I tend not to like very much. Anyways, he has a rumba called "Las Olas," on the album. It sounded very familiar. Then I realized, that it was a song called "Rumba Flamenco" that a friend and former playing partner had written! I wonder if it was one of those things where, you hear a song somewhere, and it sticks in your memory, then you 'write' it, never knowing you are actually plagiarizing it!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2005 5:54:13

Skai

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004

RE: Paco Pena-comments (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Well, I've heard one amazing PP bulerias, Solquema, off his 'Alzahara' and 'Essential Flamenco Recordings' albums. It's one hell of a great bulerias. Sounds very strong, and yet not something too 'un-traditional' like PdL. I could email it..

Isn't Nino Ricardo, PdL's teacher in the first place? I heard it on the Francisco Sanchez DVD and Ricardo himself said that "This boy's(PdL) going to be someone great.."

All in all, I love more of the traditional stuff. The difference is that PP seems to hold back some of his tone in a disciplined sort of way while PdL squeezes every sound he can get out of his guitar.

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Try some Enrique Iglesias for some great cante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2005 9:00:04

Ryan002

Posts: 173
Joined: Oct. 18 2005
From: Singapore

RE: Paco Pena-comments (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Paco Pena is by far my favourite Flamenco guitarist. He may not be rhythm heavy but he can evoke such surreal imagery in the mind sometimes...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2005 7:16:36

el ted

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003

RE: Paco Pena-comments (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Why don't people play Fandangos de Huelva then? I do. Do you play Grande instead? I have a sneaky feeling that a lot of chaps who play SOLO flamenco guitar are simply after the holy grail of Bulerias, and are in fact, guitar fans rather than FLAMENCO fans.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2005 7:40:12

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Paco Pena-comments (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

For what its worth, my favorite songs on that PP album are:

Acera de Rio (soleares)
Riomar (Fandangos de Huelva)
Medina Ahahara (granainas)

actually, "Riomar" reminds me of PDL's "Punta Umbria", and "Acera de Rio" reminds me of Manolo Sanlucar's "Caminto de Alcala" soleares- both songs I like.

I have a feeling some people would not appreciate the Granainas