Advice for the older kids keen on learning

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Viadolores

Posts: 1
Joined: Oct. 24 2010

Advice for the older kids keen on le...

Hello everyone, glad to have found a forum such as this and look forward to your direction!

I have been a fan of flamenco guitar for about 20 years now (I'm 42) and I've finally decided it's time to commit and see how far down the learning path I can get.

While I am eager, I am a complete (left-handed) beginner to guitars in general and have two questions for you:

1. Most of what I have read on the subject of learning to play flamenco guitar says to focus on classical guitar techniques for at least a year before venturing into the realm of flamenco. Do you agree with this or do you think there is value in starting directly with flamenco (with proper coaching)?

2. What (left-handed) flamenco guitars would you recommend to a student in the $800-$1000 range? While I understand the importance of trying a model before you buy, since I live in Montreal, Canada it's tough to find any dealers around here so I will probably end up buying on-line.

Thanks very much!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 1:39:04

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to Viadolores)

hi viadolores,
welcome! how come you didnt post in the general section?

quote:

1. Most of what I have read on the subject of learning to play flamenco guitar says to focus on classical guitar techniques for at least a year before venturing into the realm of flamenco. Do you agree with this or do you think there is value in starting directly with flamenco (with proper coaching)?

just learn flamenco first. they're two completely different things, imo. you'll have to unlearn a bunch of habits if you learn classical first.

quote:

2. What (left-handed) flamenco guitars would you recommend to a student in the $800-$1000 range? While I understand the importance of trying a model before you buy, since I live in Montreal, Canada it's tough to find any dealers around here so I will probably end up buying on-line.

flamenco is hard for both hands. there's been times in the beginning where i wanted to flip the guitar around and try it that way (i'm right handed). so imo, you should consider playing right handed. you'll have a lot more guitar options this way.

check out francisco navarro. you can get an AWESOME deal from ron hudson from memorial music.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 2:08:12

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to Viadolores)

I agree with at_leo, flamenco and no classical, I had to unlearn and it just made everything more complicated and wasted a lot of time.

For a guitar, I would look into used instruments. Right now, you don't know what you want and you will discover that, over and over again. For sure, you will be reselling your first few guitars, so don't put too much $ on the first one. Keep the bigger investments for when you know a little more what you are looking for in sound and feel.

On the left hand stuff, my son is left handed and I had him play right handed so he could use my guitars, he had no problems.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 2:21:14

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to Viadolores)

In my experience as a teacher, I have found that left handed players are much better off playing left handed. You will have no trouble finding a left handed guitar in your price range. Most dealers sell them, though it might take a little longer to get.

The Cordoba F7 or the Alhambra 3F - 4F - 5F are good flamenco guitars in that price range. They all come in a left handed version, and are perfect for a beginner. I only sell within the USA, but you can see all of these on my website. You can get the Alhambras faster than the Cordoba.

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 4:08:50

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to Viadolores)

there is no such thing as a left handed flamenco guitar, unless you let yourself build one. but the good news is, if the guitar is constructed symmetrical (especially bridge) you can use any right handed guitar and switch strings, get a new saddle and bridge bone and file them according to your needs

(costs about 5 euros each)...

correction: as i see there are lefthanded flamenco guitars

i would be very cautious though about the price, if it costs significantly more than the right handed model i would buy the right handed and switch the strings. this is what you will do with higher guitars anyway coz they dont have left handed models, like the industrial companies do.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 8:36:12

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to XXX)

If you can, turn a right handed to a left handed guitar then, it's not so bad, but then again, you can't try them out in the shops. Playing a left handed guitar is not a situation I would like to be in.

One day you might get to a level where you will want a nice guitar and you will know what sound you want. There is no way you will be able to try a large number of left handed guitars and choose, there are just never enough, if any, in stock; ordering a guitar is never the same as choosing it, especially if you know what sound you want, you will end up buying and reselling a lot.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 12:43:12

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to rogeliocan)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogeliocan
especially if you know what sound you want, you will end up buying and reselling a lot.

I dont see that risk, coz if there really is a guitar you want to try, you can let the seller have the strings switched so that you can play it. As i said, there are NO lefthanded guitars from luthiers or factories, you just take a right handed one and play it, preferably having the strings changed beforehand.

If you are not left handed, i dont see a reason why you should play lefthanded guitars? If you are, then it is just a question of priorities: do you want to be able to try out alot of guitars in a shop or do you want the maximum out of your playing.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 14:58:53

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Oct. 24 2010 16:39:59

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 15:18:50

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to XXX)

quote:

you can let the seller have the strings switched so that you can play it.

strings, nut and saddle. It already takes a lot of time to try guitars without doing all that. And you just can't flip them, you have to change them, you would not have precise adjustment and no intonation work. But it would give you an idea.

Like I said my left handed son learned well with his right hand guitar, could he play better on a left handed guitar... maybe don't know.

I'm only saying, being right handed makes things simpler, like it does for scissors and everything else that is built for right hand people. I'd give the right hand a try.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 15:36:59

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to Viadolores)

I would just like to point out that achieving the right set up for a left handed flamenco guitar would also require a a refret. A normal Fingerboard is skewed so the bass side is lower than the treble to allow for better string clearance. Simply changing the saddle would not make the guitar comfortable to play at all. Not would you get a decent flameco tone from it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 16:19:39

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to Viadolores)

quote:

there are NO lefthanded guitars from luthiers or factories,

When a dealer refers to a "left-handed guitar," he means that the factory will construct it that way – nut, saddle, fingerboard, etc. So there are in fact left-handed guitars from factories. I have sold plenty of them, and I listed several on my earlier post. With respect to a luthier building a "left-handed guitar," I'll let the luthiers on the Foro answer that.

With respect to a lefty playing left-handed or right – I recently had gotten to wondering why a righty doesn't play left handed, my reasoning being that the fretting hand requires more strength than the plucking hand, so why not have the dominant hand on the fingerboard. This of course would be the exact reverse of the subject at hand (no pun). So I had asked that question on the Delcamp classical site. The responses were very interesting, and obviously relevant to this thread.

http://www.delcamp.us/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48529&p=522742#p522742

(When the link takes you to the thread, you have to scroll up to the top of the page for my original post)

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 16:34:55

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to Ramon Amira)

i am left handed playing right handed...its not any harder then learning flamenco guitar anyway, you will have to start very very slowly cause of the technique, whatever hand you will start will it will feel like the wrong hand and alien hand anyway.....might as well kill 2 birds with one stone and do it at the same time...now i cant even imagine what it would be like playing with my left hand...and i don't think i have ever felled any disadvantages... i still write and eat with my left..or kick the ball with my left

however you should do whatever you feel comfortable with ..i am just saying ...its not all that hard or different to what you are going to have to go through as someone who is exposed for the first time to the flamenco technique

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 16:39:25

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to Florian)

depending on your physical condition it can be a small difference or a huge one. Personally i would not want to risk picking the wrong hand, only to be able to play guitars when im at a shop or somewhere else. Actually it would be the last thing i would worry about when learning an instrument, coz its hard enough.

Btw im mixed handed. Im not able to use a scissor with my left hand. So i dont even believe in "being left" or right handed too much. Its more like we instinctively choose the right hand for an activity. This was the case with me and the guitar.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 24 2010 18:43:11

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Advice for the older kids keen o... (in reply to XXX)

quote:

Its more like we instinctively choose the right hand for an activity. This was the case with me and the guitar.

that's so true..i guess we just call ourselves left handed or right handed from school days depending on what hand we write with but i have always done and do so many activities with the other hand...i do just as many with each hand

if i plays tennis or needed to hold a bat or something in my hand it would be my right, i would use scissors with my right...guitar right, hold phone with right

but if i need to write, or eat, or cut something with a knife, use a hammer, kick ball it would be my left

do right handed people do the same ? use both hands for diff activities ?

so i am not sure what to call myself lefty or right handed...but i guess we getting away from the main topic...basically try out a right handed guitar and left handed is what i am saying...u never know even tho u are left handed guitar might be one of those things that it will feel more comfortable and natural on the other hand for you anyway

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2010 0:44:25