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Could this guitar serve as flamenco?   You are logged in as Guest
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apak

 

Posts: 57
Joined: May 23 2010
 

Could this guitar serve as flamenco? 
I bought this guitar (The Yamaha NCX-2000R) because of it's amazing tone, and probably because of my love for Rodrigo y Gabriela (yeah, I know they don't play flamenco).

But I just wanted to get some opinions on whether this could serve for learning and playing flamenco pieces. It is a classical body, with rosewood side and back. I have no idea what the sound board structure is, but the sound is definitely not for classical purists... in fact my classical teacher scoffed at it -then again they tend to scoff at anything with electronics and cutaway. And oh yeah, the string are pretty low... lower than any classical I have seen, but I don't think it's flamenco low.


If it helps, here are some clips from them playing non-amplified



(fast forward past 1:00)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2010 11:41:08
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to apak) 
Well if you're just starting out with flamenco, pretty much anything with nylon strings and a golpeador will serve. Your ears will tell you when you get advanced enough to need a new guitar

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2010 11:52:32
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to apak) 
apak,

Well it certainly isn't anything to do with Flamenco, but they are very good "club" guitarists and really bring the audience to life.

They are immediately impressive, but I couldn't really listen to a lot of their stuff.

But that immediate wow factor is great for TV slots etc, so I think they have a good career ahead.

You would think Gabriela would be very confident and even quite brash offstage, since she comes across strong and outgoing onstage, but actually she is a very soft spoken and gentle person..and very charming!

I think they are very talented and entertaining, but I'm just not keen on that sort of music.

And I'm not keen on that kind of "django" guitar sound personally

I wish them well though.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2010 11:59:12
 
M.S.A.

 

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Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 28 2011 22:45:38
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2010 14:39:57
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to apak) 
Hey there mate, that sounds like a pretty nice guitar. I asked the same question regarding another guitar here when I started out last year as well.

Most replies I've received is that it's important to have a good height over the soundhole (bottom end of it). I think a good height given as about 8-9mm.

Does Rodrigo play the same model as Gabriela in the videos? They both have the same rosette yet Gabriela is playing one with a rosewood side.. and Rodrigo has a light side like a blanca. I'm a big fan of them as well.

cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2010 17:37:17
 
apak

 

Posts: 57
Joined: May 23 2010
 

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to apak) 
quote:

've received is that it's important to have a good height over the soundhole (bottom end of it). I think a good height given as about 8-9mm.


Regarding the comments about Rodrigo y Gabriela themselves, well, they don't hide and actually emphasize that what they play is more heavy-rock than anything else, and in more than one interview have made it clear they don't play flamenco, although they are fans of flamenco.

My question was more specific to the guitar itself rather than the musicians.

HoldyEvil, Gabriela plays the rosewood back version with the classical body, while Rodrigo plays the 14-fret narrow body NTX version.

By the way, just a fun fact, in their latest album (called 11:11) each of their songs was a "tribute" to different legends, from Carlos Santana and Jim Hendrix to Pink Floyd.

This song is a tribute to "master maqui" Paco de Lucia - again not flamenco at all but a fun twist that is signiture of this duo:

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 23 2010 18:09:04
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14866
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to apak) 
no

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2010 5:35:10
 
apak

 

Posts: 57
Joined: May 23 2010
 

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to Ricardo) 
Thanks for the reply.

However, would you kindly educate the ignorant?

I have read through the forums and related threads, and I am aware of the "text book" and technical differences between a classical guitar and a flamenco guitar. However, reliable sources have also told me that *certain* classical guitars are suitable for playing flamenco. In fact, Manolo Sanulcar is referenced as an example of world class flamenco played on a technically classical guitar.

In any case, my question and point of posting the examples, was for someone to pick up something very specific that tips off this guitar as not being suitable for flamenco sounds (ignoring that they are not playing flamenco)... e.g. it is just too muddy and unresponsive, or whatever else I don't have the ear to pick up?

Cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2010 13:04:53
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14866
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to apak) 
quote:

However, would you kindly educate the ignorant?


no


JK

Ok, see that white bone sticking up? This bridge design is CLASSICAL. Action over the fingerboard is not the point. Manolo's guitar has a FLAMENCO bridge. That is the difference. But overall even if you glue on a flamenco bridge to these junky guitars they won't be flamenco. They are barely classical guitars. They are like rockin steel string acoustics with a slight wide neck and and plastic strings for a nice plastic sound, for some nice plastic music.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2010 13:33:25
 
apak

 

Posts: 57
Joined: May 23 2010
 

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to apak) 
quote:

to these junky guitars they won't be flamenco. They are barely classical guitars. They are like rockin steel string acoustics with a slight wide neck and and plastic strings for a nice plastic sound, for some nice plastic music.


A respectful nod to your qualified and credible opinion on flamenco guitars. I guess I'll eventually have to get a proper flamenco guitar.

But a frown to your thoughts on its quality as a classical guitar - and it is a traditional classical (not the NTX though). I tried a dozen Spanish made classical in the same price range($2 to 3K) with and without amp, and nothing came even close.

I'll never forget the look on my classical guitar teacher's face. When he first saw it, he was immediately put off (I think that's the purists knee-jerk reaction as soon as they see a cutaway). Then he played three bars on it... his eyebrows went shooting to sky from the surprise he couldn't hide from the tonal quality. His final call... better than his luthier made concert guitar. But he also added "oh you'll never see an elite classical player playing on a cut-away"

... whatever. I'll worry about that when and if I'll be "elite".
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2010 14:16:03
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14866
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to apak) 
quote:

I'll never forget the look on my classical guitar teacher's face. When he first saw it, he was immediately put off


Unfortunately these prejudices develop with experiences of playing dozens of like modeled and sounding lower end instruments. There is an Hermanos Sanchis lopez model flamenco cut a way with electronics that sound darn good for flamenco. I would find and link you a photo, but last time I did that a legal threat result toward the forum, so search on your own if you must have a rockin cutaway gabriela lookin marote strumming instrument, that coincidentally also sounds good for flamenco.

For your info, when it comes to classical or flamenco concertists, the price minumum for concert guitars is usually upwards of $5000 unfortunately, for guitars with a famous (relatively) name especially. So In regards to guitars, anything below that range these days is often assumed to be a student grade instrument. (Exceptions go for new makers that have not yet established their name with a years long wait list etc) You can find good USED concert instruments in the $3000-4000 range if you are lucky and they are not in "pristine like new" condition. Honestly that is the way to go cuz those instruments were also played and get the supernatural "broken in" played duende quality whatever that is.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2010 14:31:14
 
apak

 

Posts: 57
Joined: May 23 2010
 

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to apak) 
holy cow... I think at most I'll be able to justify for an additional guitar is $1000.

You suppose I'll be able to find anything respectable in that range in Spain? I'm planning to take a few months of lessons in Granada and Jerez this coming fall.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2010 14:38:39
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14866
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to apak) 
quote:

You suppose I'll be able to find anything respectable in that range in Spain?


New? No. Maybe Alhambra 7F but, not sure if they are as good as they used to be, or even if the price is still under that.

For your info also, Yamaha DOES make flamenco guitars. The cheap one is like $350 I think, and the latest incarnation has a cutaway to boot. It is not a "respectable concert instrument" but it can do the job.

Ricardo

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www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2010 14:48:56
 
GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
For your info also, Yamaha DOES make flamenco guitars. The cheap one is like $350 I think, and the latest incarnation has a cutaway to boot. It is not a "respectable concert instrument" but it can do the job.


The CG171SF has been discontinued. You may still be lucky if you can find remaining stock at the brick-and-mortar stores.

The CGX171SFC (with pickups and cutaway) is still available in limited quantities online for $550.

I'm thankful to have gotten mine when I did.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2010 15:42:35
 
apak

 

Posts: 57
Joined: May 23 2010
 

RE: Could this guitar serve as flamenco? (in reply to apak) 
Seems like Yamaha offers good value in the low and mid-range of nylon instruments.

I hope they never make a flamenco version in the NX series, because I'll kick myself for getting the NCX2000R classical.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2010 20:52:42
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