Wider horizons

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Wider horizons

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a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

Wider horizons

So last night someone asked me if I played another instrument.

"Of course I play another instrument," I said. "I also have a negra."

Obviously I need to broaden my horizons.

But not TOO much.

Since I lean strongly toward the puro end of the spectrum, I'd like a recommendation on who should I be listening to that has strong puro influence but leans enough in the nuevo direction to start me on a journey into the 20th century.

I know most of you guys probably prefer Vicente Amigo etc, but I'm looking for recommendations that are more intermediate on the puro-nuevo spectrum.

I like listening to Moraito. I love the way he uses compas, and he really seems to enjoy himself, never letting technique overshadow the music.

Any thoughts?

Tony Arnold

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"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2010 8:34:31

Stu

Posts: 2546
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to a_arnold)

hmmm?? who do you listen to in the "puro" category?? (so I don't suggest someone you already listen to who we categorise differently)

....and without opening up some debate on where the line is.....what are you thinking of in terms of horizons being broadened??? jazzy chords? or other instruments?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2010 8:48:37

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2010 8:57:26

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

ORIGINAL: a_arnold
I like listening to Moraito. I love the way he uses compas, and he really seems to enjoy himself, never letting technique overshadow the music.

Any thoughts?

His son?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2010 9:24:03

flybynight

Posts: 121
Joined: Aug. 14 2009

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to a_arnold)

For me..

Pepe Habichuela (you're probably already listening to him..) and my wildcard would be..

Juan Carlos Romero - he's done a nice album playing guitar with Miguel Poveda (Tierra de Calma), and Carmen Linares(Raices Y Alas), and his solo album Azulejo is interesting too.

The palos are always there, a little hidden away sometimes, he stretches the compas a little, nice phrasing, very subtle but definitely flamenco player. Just honest playing, no theatrics, not crazily intense, but not elevator music either.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2010 9:27:41

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to a_arnold)

1. Look more closely at anything by Ramón Montoya (and what Sabicas and Ricardo did with those ideas). Lots to learn there regardless of your experience.

2. Look more closely at the first recordings of Paco de Lucía (La fabulosa guitarra de PdL) and Manolo Sanlúcar (Recital flamenco).

3. Juan Maya "Marote," the Habichuelas, Enrique de Melchor... up to Paco's generation and selectively thereafter. For less of a virtuoso approach, Manolo Domínguez, Fernando Moreno, Pascual de Lorca and of course Cepero, Parrilla, etc.

4. Cante recordings, regardless of the guitarist's age or career. Most guitarists play differently when there's a singer. For example, after Manolo Sanlúcar's first album, his solo recordings don't really do much for me, but he continued accompanying very well through the 1970s with singers like Manuel Agujetas. Also, accompaniment for cantiñas (alegrías, cantiñas, caracoles, mirabrás, romeras) has developed a lot in the last 20 years.

It also depends on the style, because not every guitarist will play every style to your liking. In the styles that Camarón sang, Tomate's accompaniment is outstanding, especially in their early recordings.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2010 9:40:38

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to a_arnold)

You can listen Tomas de Perrate album : "Perraterias". With the killer groove of Antonio Moya.
There is a reggae fusion/version of the Tango del Piyayo

, a seguirya with drums

...
Very interesting album.

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2010 13:44:20

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to Stu)

quote:

who do you listen to in the "puro" category??

The Gastor family. Sabicas. Nino Ricardo. Paco Pena. Ramon Montoya, even.

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"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2010 17:12:08

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to Stu)

quote:

...and without opening up some debate on where the line is.....

I definitely want to avoid that.

quote:

what are you thinking of in terms of horizons being broadened??? jazzy chords?

Yes. And scales. What can be incorporated into a puro repertoire without seeming out of place. I'd like to be able to move back and forth on the "spectrum" without disrupting the music.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2010 17:17:23

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to flybynight)

quote:

Pepe Habichuela (you're probably already listening to him..) and my wildcard would be..

Yes, but not a lot. Maybe I should go back to him.

quote:

Juan Carlos Romero - he's done a nice album playing guitar with Miguel Poveda (Tierra de Calma), and Carmen Linares(Raices Y Alas), and his solo album Azulejo is interesting too.

Jeez, I LOVE Alfilieres de Colores from Tierra de Calma. Diego Carrasco is magnificent. Yeah. I like Juan Carlos Romero. Hard to figure out those chords by ear, though.

And I have a lot of Carmen Linares.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2010 17:21:48

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to NormanKliman)

quote:

1. Look more closely at anything by Ramón Montoya (and what Sabicas and Ricardo did with those ideas). Lots to learn there regardless of your experience.

Yes. My teacher (Carlos Ramos) was a contemporary of Sabicas, and (like Sabicas) a student of Ramon Montoya. That is where I am starting from.

quote:

2. Look more closely at the first recordings of Paco de Lucía (La fabulosa guitarra de PdL) and Manolo Sanlúcar (Recital flamenco).

For the more modern players I tend to listen to their accompaniment rather than their solo work -- they seem to revert (somewhat) to their roots.

quote:

3. Juan Maya "Marote," the Habichuelas, Enrique de Melchor... up to Paco's generation and selectively thereafter. For less of a virtuoso approach, Manolo Domínguez, Fernando Moreno, Pascual de Lorca and of course Cepero, Parrilla, etc.

Those sound like good suggestions. I'll get a few albums.

quote:

4. Cante recordings, regardless of the guitarist's age or career. Most guitarists play differently when there's a singer. For example, after Manolo Sanlúcar's first album, his solo recordings don't really do much for me, but he continued accompanying very well through the 1970s with singers like Manuel Agujetas. Also, accompaniment for cantiñas (alegrías, cantiñas, caracoles, mirabrás, romeras) has developed a lot in the last 20 years.

I'm not fond of Sanlucar's recent solo stuff, so I have tended not to buy him, even when accompanying. . . Obviously I should have been more openminded about his accompaniment.

quote:

It also depends on the style, because not every guitarist will play every style to your liking. In the styles that Camarón sang, Tomate's accompaniment is outstanding, especially in their early recordings.

I can probably find some of that on youtube.

Thanks, Norman. That is useful.

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"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 29 2010 17:31:57

Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to a_arnold)

cool old school
mario escudero
esteban de sanlucar
pepe martinez
melchor de marchena

middle period
Paco Cepero
PDL- Duende Flamenco, Fuente y Caudal, Live teatro Real, Almoraima (pushing it)
Nino Miguel
Serranito (but I was never really into him, but he is from this period and important figure)

Modern but trad based guys (most of them play very trad when they accompany singers, but get crazy with guitar solos):
Gerardo nunez accompanying Indio Gitano
Manolo Franco
Tomatito accomp potito or pansequito
Vicente accomp El pele first album.
Chicuelo
PDL Siroco (everything after is very modern in style, but this album is mostly guitar at least).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 30 2010 6:17:11

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to XXX)

quote:

His son?

Moraito Chico. I think the father died about 4 years ago?

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"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2010 19:21:20

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Wider horizons (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

cool old school
mario escudero
esteban de sanlucar
pepe martinez
melchor de marchena

middle period
Paco Cepero
PDL- Duende Flamenco, Fuente y Caudal, Live teatro Real, Almoraima (pushing it)
Nino Miguel
Serranito (but I was never really into him, but he is from this period and important figure)

Modern but trad based guys (most of them play very trad when they accompany singers, but get crazy with guitar solos):
Gerardo nunez accompanying Indio Gitano
Manolo Franco
Tomatito accomp potito or pansequito
Vicente accomp El pele first album.
Chicuelo
PDL Siroco (everything after is very modern in style, but this album is mostly guitar at least).

Thanks, Ricardo. Another good list to work my way through.

_____________________________

"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 1 2010 19:23:11