Rasgueado using thumb downstroke

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ConradP

Posts: 109
Joined: Feb. 1 2010

Rasgueado using thumb downstroke

Hi All

I am having trouble executing a normal triplet rasgueado with the thumb strumming downwards because my nail gets stuck. The thing is that my thumb nail curves over the finger as you can see in the pic (apologies to those offended ).

Does anyone else have the same problem? How do I overcome this? Is it even possible to overcome?

Kind regards
Conrad Pienaar

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 4:45:58

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rasguaedo using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

well, i think it is a question of practicing and adapting the way of playing to your finger anatomics.
everything is possible.

what i would suggest is that you stretch out the thumb (don't bend the thumb joints inwards, thats a mistake many beginners do, independent from the shape of the finger/nail etc.)

not only that this is the correct way of playing with thumb, but in your case, that way your thumb also forms a very slight "U" (outwards) and somehow compensates the opposite curve of your nail.

if you look at Moraito , he has a very long thumb nail and it is also a little bit curved at the end (this is however because of the length of the nail and not because of the problem you have), BUT the result is almost the same.
i would have difficulties to play with such a nail, but he can.
so it is a question of adapting.
you can do it too.

another possibility would be some kind of plastic artificial nail, glued, etc.
you could ask Jason MCGuire about details

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 5:09:17

por medio

Posts: 289
Joined: Nov. 15 2009

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

Yeah I think your nail is fine. It's probably your playing angle or the way you strike the strings.

Oh, do check the way you file the nail though...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 5:42:35

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to por medio)

I always got stuck until I filed my thumbnail like this:

This illustrates how I'd angle the middle joint.
If possible do it like Vicente - looks cool.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 6:32:08

ConradP

Posts: 109
Joined: Feb. 1 2010

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to bursche)

OK. I took the advice of extending the thumb to form a U (albeit a slight U). It still looks like your nail does not curve downwards over the finger like mine though. I have been practicing this for the last 2 days and now I basically get 2 successive triplets that are reasonably accurate at a reasonable tempo but eventually I want to make it roll (if that makes sense). Is this normal?

I'm sorry about all the questions but there are probably 3 flamenco guitarists in my country.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 7:12:09

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

this is moraitos nail in the Encuentro DVD (as you can see, it is curved at the ending part of the nail)

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 7:42:23

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

i think your main problem must be your technique, not so much the nail shape.

use some good rasgueados practicing videos and try to copy all aspects

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 7:44:32

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

here for instance are some techniques

at about 1.26 triplet rasgueados

try to relax your hand, most movement is from the wrist, etc.
keep your thumb outstretched, but don't do it frantically with too much pressure.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 8:06:49

ConradP

Posts: 109
Joined: Feb. 1 2010

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to Arash)

There. That is what my nail looks like. OK I'm thinking of signing up with MR. McGuire, he should have decent videos on this. Thanks alot guys.

C

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 9:03:30

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

Yes, Jason has some great lessons (both technique and falsetas, etc.), camera from different angles, etc.

highly recommanded. you won't regret.
good luck

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 9:14:05

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

it also depends on the bend in the thumb.

Some people have alot more natural back bend in their thumb.

And some people's thumb is straight, and does not angle backward.

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 9:53:07

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

it also depends on the bend in the thumb.

Some people have alot more natural back bend in their thumb.

And some people's thumb is straight, and does not angle backward.

TK

thats right. i agree with this.

not everybody has (or can do) this extreme bending like Vicente.
and its also not necessary. not at all.

important ist just that the movement is not from the second joint of the thumb

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 10:06:30

ConradP

Posts: 109
Joined: Feb. 1 2010

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to Arash)

OK that is good because my thumb only bends back slightly. Are you sure it'sno necessary?

Also, should I be practicing on this classical guitar or should I rather buy flamenco guitar. What I mean is: will I be sent on the wrong trajectory and regret not having practiced on a flamenco guitar a year down the line?

I can get this guitar or one mode up from that in my city (more or less).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 10:46:29

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

yes, i am sure.
many players don't bend it that much like Vicente or Paco Serrano, etc.
as mentioned, the important thing is that you don't bend your thumb in the middle of the finger and that its outstrechted.

----

generally it is always better to have a flamenco guitar (with a proper FLAMENCO setup) right from the beginning because of the setup (not so much because of difference of the sound). the setup of flamenco guitars are different from classical. also you will play Golpes and you will need a Golpeador on your guitar, to protect it and to be able to play Golpes properly.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 11:23:37

ConradP

Posts: 109
Joined: Feb. 1 2010

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to Arash)

Hi Arash

Thank you. It does feel like the action on the Yamaha is too high and I don't get much attack.

OK. I'm practicing my pancreas off now on the triplet rasgueado.

C

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 11:27:42

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

The odd thing about my thumb that i have found, is that my thumb
naturally wants to back bend. I have alot of back bend in my thumb
like Vicente.
The thing is, i dont have to conciously bend it back. The pressure of my thumb
against the strings bends it back. I have to conciously keep it straight if i
want it to remain straight. Otherwise, the joint collapses backwards.

This is cool for most things, but for some things its a pain.

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 7 2010 12:35:26

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

i'm late for the party but here is how my thumb looks at the moment. you can't see it too well in the picture but my thumb nail is curved similar to yours.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2010 6:51:01

ConradP

Posts: 109
Joined: Feb. 1 2010

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to at_leo_87)

Hi Anthony

Thanks. Yes that is very much the shape of my nail.

C

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2010 7:29:24

Spencer

Posts: 34
Joined: Mar. 27 2008
From: Bargara Beach, Australia

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

Hi Conrad.

Your name suggests you live in the Rainbow Nation?

I have a straight thumb, and do not have the hyperextension of the joint that creates the U shaped thumb that several players have. It seemed to me that it is because of this that I also battle with the thumb nail hooking.

My solution has been to change the angle of attack. If I bend my right wrist to a more acute angle, this INCREASES the hooking. On the other hand if I extend my hand slightly towards the sound hole, this flattens the angle of my wrist, increases the contact between flesh, and eliminates the hooking. If I get the angle right, I can get just sufficient nail contact without hooking.

I also file some of the hook out of the nail.

Hambe Gahle (Go Well).

Spencer.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 17 2010 0:38:28

ConradP

Posts: 109
Joined: Feb. 1 2010

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to Spencer)

@RugBoots

You just made my day man! Yes I am from the Rainbow nation.

I have been practicing the technique alot and there is quite a bit of progress but it's not as smooth as my other rasgueados yet.

I hope this will change with practice and advice like yours.

Thanks Spencer!

To those who don't know, Spencer was speaking Zulu there.

Conrad

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 17 2010 0:49:19

hobersmith

Posts: 13
Joined: Feb. 21 2010

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

Maybe cut your nail a bit more. Even really short nails are sufficient for rasguedos, but what the other people already recommended should fix it easily.

Also try to be relaxed when moving your hand and build up speed gradually.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 10:24:07

Spencer

Posts: 34
Joined: Mar. 27 2008
From: Bargara Beach, Australia

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to hobersmith)

Hey Conrad,

How is that downward thumb stroke coming along?

My thumb nails hooks up every now and again. When it does I wonder if you are getting there?

Spencer.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 21:44:34

ConradP

Posts: 109
Joined: Feb. 1 2010

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to Spencer)

quote:

Hey Conrad,

How is that downward thumb stroke coming along?

My thumb nails hooks up every now and again. When it does I wonder if you are getting there?

Spencer.

Hey Spencer

There is still some hooking but much less than before. I am working on it every day.

I don't know if it is normal to have to work this hard on this technique but I am.

C

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 21:50:42

Spencer

Posts: 34
Joined: Mar. 27 2008
From: Bargara Beach, Australia

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

Glad to hear you are making progress.

It seems to me that in pursuit of flamenco, hard work and perserverence are inevitable and inescapable.

Have a great day.

Spencer.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 21:55:16

ConradP

Posts: 109
Joined: Feb. 1 2010

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to Spencer)

Hey Spencer

You have a great day too man.

C

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2010 21:57:44

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Rasgueado using thumb downstroke (in reply to ConradP)

I also have nails that hook over, on my fingers as well as thumb.

Here are some things I have learnt that helped me-

1. Some nails are better for flamenco than others but there is always a way around however your nails are- don't be disheartened!

2. It just takes time to develop the right pattern of movement, my experience is that focused practice with a metronome always pays off. In fact our capacity for fine motor learning is quite remarkable. Even with perfect nails you may well have found that your thumb gets stuck on the strings.

3. Nail shaping helps. I ramp my nails so they don't get hooked onto the strings-

Have a look at this thread for nail shaping advice there's a link in the first post to "pumping nylon" this has good information on nail shape.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=123516&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=nail%2Cshape&tmode=&smode=&s=#123548

4. Using nail hardener or superglue is common practice. It suits some people. I find it has the advantage of holding the nail straight as it grows out away from the finger tip- the hooking is then greatly diminished.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2010 6:43:02