Question for Zata

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Question for Zata

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Jamey

Posts: 187
Joined: Jul. 7 2004
From: Winnipeg, Canada

Question for Zata

I suppose anybody can answer this but given Estella's encyclopedic knowlegde of compás and style variations.....

Zata, what makes more sense when working out compás: treating it as a pattern that is a constant flow and you just jump in on in at a given point, OR, trying to count out "the 12s" and mentally marking the accented counts to stay in compas as you go?

Personally, counting causes me so much irritation and distraction that I screw up and fall out of compás. If I just feel the pattern and follow it in my head, I seem to be okay. I may as a result miss accenting a note here and there but I don't fall out of compás.

Does this change with experience and practise or should one use both concurrently?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2004 21:50:35

zata

Posts: 659
Joined: Jul. 17 2003

RE: Question for Zata (in reply to Jamey)

quote:

Zata, what makes more sense when working out compás: treating it as a pattern that is a constant flow and you just jump in on in at a given point, OR, trying to count out "the 12s" and mentally marking the accented counts to stay in compas as you go?

Jamey, I think this question only becomes important when talking about bulerías, because there are so many layers of rhythm, and it all happens so fast. Without a doubt Spanish flamenco artists work by the "constant flow/just jump in" system. "Mentally marking the accented counts" is like trying to speak a foreign language by calling up the rules of grammar with each phrase...you make yourself understood, but it sounds stilted.

I advise students to learn the various counting systems to get a perspective...and then forget them as soon as possible. One of my most ridiculed metaphors (I'm used to that

) which also brings the best results with students, is to think of compás as a merry-go-round, and instead of *one* ring to grab, there are numerous ones, and these are the "potential" accents (2s, 3s, 6s...). As you spin around on your wooden horse bobbing up and down along with everyone else, each individual may make a grab for any of the rings...or allow them to pass ungrabbed. As long as everyone is riding on the same merry-go-round, everything will work out fine. However, those individuals who try to distinguish 'rings' 12-3-6-8-10 as they whirl will quickly get boggled and not have any fun.

The metaphor works for all rhythmic flamenco forms, but only becomes vitally important in bulerías.

I just had a good chuckle. One member here cross-posted an excerpt of my twos "disseration" at flamencodisc aka grouptherapy com. He said I was preaching that the most important accents in bulerías are 2 and 4, (which of course is only true in a specific context that he failed to mention) and then sat back to wait for ridicule to be heaped upon the statement. Much to my suprise (and his no doubt!) the administrator, not known for a genteel debating style, explained how this was correct and even showed in what kind of situation. Yet months ago I spent dozens of messages explaining just that, on the same forum, and it brought only locker-room insults or worse.

I privately wrote the person who did the dubious cross-posting (he uses a different nick here so I can't tell who it is) requesting he clarify the context in order to avoid confusion. Since he did not do so, nor did he respond to my private message, it seems clear it was just a tactic that backfired, but like real badly

.

Life is just one big merry-go-round...

Estela 'Zata'

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2004 8:39:12

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Question for Zata (in reply to zata)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zata
One of my most ridiculed metaphors (I'm used to that ) which also brings the best results with students, is to think of compás as a merry-go-round, and instead of *one* ring to grab, there are numerous ones, and these are the "potential" accents (2s, 3s, 6s...). As you spin around on your wooden horse bobbing up and down along with everyone else, each individual may make a grab for any of the rings...or allow them to pass ungrabbed. As long as everyone is riding on the same merry-go-round, everything will work out fine. However, those individuals who try to distinguish 'rings' 12-3-6-8-10 as they whirl will quickly get boggled and not have any fun.

Brilliant!

I suddenly feel liberated.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2004 13:24:49