Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
Two DeVoes at Mundo Flamenco
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login | |
|
jshelton5040
Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
|
RE: Two DeVoes at Mundo Flamenco (in reply to SephardRick)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SephardRick The most common were nitrocellulose lacquer sprayed over alcohol, turpentine, linseed, and paraffin based primer coats. We were told by the manufacture (Parks) any quick dry finish over a slow curing material would cause alligatoring or checking. Fisheyes in the finish from high humidity was another problem. There's little doubt that using any finish involves a learning curve. Just ask anyone who's tried French polish for the first time. If you're going to spray lacquer or any other finish you absolutely must attend to water and oil in the lines, not to mention temperature, humidity, air flow, ventilation, etc. Otherwise you'll have constant problems with fish eye, pock marks, blushing, etc. I will never listen to advice from a manufacturer after my latest fiasco with cold checking. If I weren't so old I'd consider switching to polyester since I think it's the best finish available for the small shop builder.
_____________________________
John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 21 2015 23:15:53
|
|
tri7/5
Posts: 570
Joined: May 5 2012
|
RE: Two DeVoes at Mundo Flamenco (in reply to jshelton5040)
|
|
|
John, curious why you would entertain poly as a finish on an acoustic instrument? I've always felt, and many players agree in the electric realm, that poly is the most dampening finish out there. Since acoustic volume and reponse isn't the most important thing in the electric realm its kind of a moot point. However you can immediately feel the acoustic vibration difference and sound in an electric guitar finished in poly vs. thin nitro or satin etc. quote:
ORIGINAL: jshelton5040 quote:
ORIGINAL: SephardRick The most common were nitrocellulose lacquer sprayed over alcohol, turpentine, linseed, and paraffin based primer coats. We were told by the manufacture (Parks) any quick dry finish over a slow curing material would cause alligatoring or checking. Fisheyes in the finish from high humidity was another problem. There's little doubt that using any finish involves a learning curve. Just ask anyone who's tried French polish for the first time. If you're going to spray lacquer or any other finish you absolutely must attend to water and oil in the lines, not to mention temperature, humidity, air flow, ventilation, etc. Otherwise you'll have constant problems with fish eye, pock marks, blushing, etc. I will never listen to advice from a manufacturer after my latest fiasco with cold checking. If I weren't so old I'd consider switching to polyester since I think it's the best finish available for the small shop builder.
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 22 2015 12:54:45
|
|
Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3437
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
|
RE: Two DeVoes at Mundo Flamenco (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
|
|
|
One of America's best known luthiers, who has seen the Arcangel Fernandez, points out that the finish is NOT lacquer, it IS catalyzed urethane, a much more durable finish. Lacquers dry by evaporation, and in fact usually do eventually crack or check. Catalyzed urethane hardens by catalyzing the long chain molecules of urethane. It is a much more stable finish. Catalyzed urethane takes more skill to prepare and apply than lacquer. Thus many American factories apply lacquer to instruments, despite its inferiority to catalyzed polyurethane. The catalyzed polyurethane on my '67 Ramirez 1a blanca is still in excellent condition, though the top shows a few small marks due to the softness of the cedar. I knew the finish on the Arcangel was catalyzed polyurethane, but fell into the lazy habit of calling it lacquer. Devoe is a highly skilled luthier, no doubt familiar with the practices of Spanish makers. I wonder whether the dealer made the same mistake I did, calling catalyzed polyurethane "lacquer?" RNJ
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 22 2015 16:32:15
|
|
jshelton5040
Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
|
RE: Two DeVoes at Mundo Flamenco (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan One of America's best known luthiers, who has seen the Arcangel Fernandez, points out that the finish is NOT lacquer, it IS catalyzed urethane, a much more durable finish. Lacquers dry by evaporation, and in fact usually do eventually crack or check. Catalyzed urethane hardens by catalyzing the long chain molecules of urethane. It is a much more stable finish. Catalyzed urethane takes more skill to prepare and apply than lacquer. Thus many American factories apply lacquer to instruments, despite its inferiority to catalyzed polyurethane. The catalyzed polyurethane on my '67 Ramirez 1a blanca is still in excellent condition, though the top shows a few small marks due to the softness of the cedar. I knew the finish on the Arcangel was catalyzed polyurethane, but fell into the lazy habit of calling it lacquer. Devoe is a highly skilled luthier, no doubt familiar with the practices of Spanish makers. I wonder whether the dealer made the same mistake I did, calling catalyzed polyurethane "lacquer?" RNJ So according to this you have either a polyester or acrylic finish. "Two-component polyurethanes consist of a polyisocyanate hardener and a resin, either an acrylic or polyester. Once combined, they result in a highly cross-linked finish." If lacquer is applied correctly i.e. in very thin coats it is not prone to cracking or checking. I recently examined one of our guitars built in the early 70's which has no sign of checking or cracking. With the exception of the recent mistake I made by following manufacturer's instructions I have never seen any cracking or checking in the finish on our guitars in more than 45 years so I think your statement "Lacquers dry by evaporation, and in fact usually do eventually crack or check." may be a bit of an exaggeration.
_____________________________
John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date May 22 2015 18:19:00
|
|
New Messages |
No New Messages |
Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
Locked w/ New Messages |
Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
7.800293E-02 secs.
|