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Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Is this speeding up towards the ... (in reply to machopicasso)
quote:
ORIGINAL: machopicasso
quote:
eatting beats out of compas???? very different then an elastic tempo. Refer to those "elastic tempo vs out of compas" threads of old...
Is Vicente's "Cordoba" an "elastic" solea? Are some pieces so elastic that, when learning to play them, it no longer makes sense to try to play them in compas?
LIke KMMI77 said, you need to understand or learn it as if you were to play it steady and even first...so any falseta might have functional value in say a dance context. It might not anyway in the end because it is just too slow or fast for context. But at the point you make it elastic taste will dictate what is appropriate.
If someone were to give you palmas for any falseta that you want to perform in public, you should be able to do it or else you don't really understand its compas.
Later you realize that in some cases such as a piece like that, playing it steady and strict can be limiting to expression in certain ways. Hence the evolution of "toque libre" from the strict time Fandangos form.
RE: Is this speeding up towards the ... (in reply to KMMI77)
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I believe understanding how Vicentes falsetas relate to the compas is what is most important.
If after doing that you decide to re interpret the music following a strict straight compas, then that would be fine also.
Yeah, I get how "Cordoba" relates to the compas, generally speaking. The problem is that in learning the piece one wants to approximate Vicente's expressiveness, and that pulls in a different direction from that of learning to play it strictly in compas.
But your point's well-taken, as is Ricardo's concerning the utility (for dance accompaniment) of learning to play an otherwise elastic piece strictly in compas.
Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under
RE: Is this speeding up towards the ... (in reply to machopicasso)
quote:
The problem is that in learning the piece one wants to approximate Vicente's expressiveness, and that pulls in a different direction from that of learning to play it strictly in compas.
yes i understand your point. When i try to play Vicentes music i usually try to recreate whatever he did. As that is what made me like it. When someone is accompanying with palmas for solea for example, i will usually pick other falsetas that slot into straight compas more easily. And save any tricky slippery ones for when there is no palmas. Sometimes taking the air out of them takes away what was cool about it.
Some of those earlier Alegrias falsetas from paco de lucia, like from barrio la vina, can feel very strange to play against some solid swinging compas also. It's fun to try it though. It helps me re interpret the way i hear them.
RE: Is this speeding up towards the ... (in reply to KMMI77)
quote:
When i try to play Vicentes music i usually try to recreate whatever he did. As that is what made me like it. When someone is accompanying with palmas for solea for example, i will usually pick other falsetas that slot into straight compas more easily. And save any tricky slippery ones for when there is no palmas. Sometimes taking the air out of them takes away what was cool about it.
It's ironic, perhaps, but this discussion gives me a greater appreciation for Vicente's grasp of the compas. It's like one who's trying to learn his music has to choose at the outset whether to play it expressively or strictly in compas. But Vicente doesn't have that dilemma; he plays expressively from within a mastery of the compas. Maybe one day...
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