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Listening out compas from recordings..
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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 RE: Listening out compas from record... (in reply to Skai)
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Skai,
The problem is that some cante/guitar stuff is not metronomic.
That is, you can't tap a steady rhythm to it from start to end.
But the compás structure is definitely there.
Of course you've got to know what you are listening for.
It's not jumping out at you and immediately obvious.
There are heaps of books and Internet sites explaining the structure of the various forms.
The "Understanding Flamenco" CD is excellent if you can get a hold of it.
Another thing to beware of is latching on to a rhythm which feels right, but is in fact out.
I have found this quite easy to do because of the polyrhythmic nature of Flamenco.
This whole compás issue is incredibly important, not just an academic thing or something that only the "purists" go on about.
No matter how well anybody plays, if they play out of compás then it's fundamentally wrong, unlike fluffing a note or playing an incorrect chord momentarily.
It's not Flamenco, it's just Spanishy stuff.
It's a bit like Clapton playing a really technically brilliant blues, but sometimes playing 11 bars and sometimes 12 and sometimes 13.
It doesn't sound right and jarrs your ears and gets everybody else in the band lost.
I've heard some Spanish amateur blues enthusiasts play like that.
They are so absorbed in bending notes and producing a funky sound that they overrun or underrun the phrasing and can't hear it as being wrong.
It's not Blues, just Bluesy type stuff.
No matter how slick and funky they were, they wouldn't be taken seriously in any amateur Blues club, say in Britain or the States.
(I suppose they could always call it some kind of "fusion", which means they've given it their best shot, not quite there yet, but it's "their own interpretation" and at least should be considered as some kind of a valid "World Music" LOL!)
Try and get a hold of some recordings with a dancer as well as a singer.
Also the early Paco/Camaron stuff has very clear compás.
It is difficult though, not something you pick up in a week or even a year.
It's more of a feel that develops over the years.
I've found from experience that it's always dangerous to think that you've "got" or "internalised" a particular style and then get lax about it, 'cos 6 months down the road you'll find that you haven't LOL!
I go out of compás a lot, but it's just a case of finding out where you went wrong and why you went wrong and learning from it.
cheers
Ron
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 6 2004 9:57:03
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musicalgrant
Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004
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RE: Listening out compas from record... (in reply to Skai)
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Hi Skai
Well it is a good question, why is it easy to play along to a bulerias, yet a solea can be so difficult with cante.
well, in my opion, solea is more about a feeling and bulerias is about playing with the rhythm.. in Solea there is a compas and the singer dictates the chord changes and tempo etc, so there is bound to be lots of ritardando and accelerandos going on, speeding up and slowing down stuff, if a drummer was to play on the beat exactly it would sound like a metronome playing or a drum machine, which would be boring a bit like a clock ticking!!!
So to add a human element there will be some delay and stuff like in the soleares, delay in the soleares gives it more depth and feeling, a feeling of solitude, but when the dancers kick in then it has to be in time and to the beat, but until then the singer dictates where the beat is, and the poor guitarist has to follow no matter what, a bit like a slave LOL....
Hope this helps 
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 6 2004 23:41:23
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musicalgrant
Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004
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RE: Listening out compas from record... (in reply to Skai)
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Dear skai
The Bulerias is only a Soleares Speeded up!..Solea per bulerias is in the Bulerias key.. and is a slower version too...lol..There is a bit more to it than that, as my flamenco guitar teacher once said to me, after playing the same stuff you get bored and start playing around with it..and bulerias is that, it is playing around with the 12 beat compas..lets face it if we played on the 3, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12 beats for several days we would get really bored..so they started playing with the beat on the 12, 2, 4, 6,8, 10 etc..but counted it as 1 to 6, and hence always ended up back in compas...and then mixed them up..and to be honest mate if you have two or more people clapping the compas at you , u will never lose your place, you will learn to look for the signals either auraly or visually!! We dont have that luxury of both aural and visual cues!! 
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 7 2004 22:26:50
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