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Forum Etiquette
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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 RE: Forum Etiquete (in reply to Florian)
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Yup, I'd agree with your comments Flo.
On issues of Flamencology, I have nothing really to say....I learn from the Forum.
As to taste, yeah sometimes I do comment about stuff that I find overdone or over complicated just for it's own sake. (IMO of course  ), but to me that's just like chatting or "arguing" with someone in a pub....I don't disrespect the person and don't expect it to turn into a fist fight for Christ's sake.
OK... I admit that sometimes I'm guilty of lighting the blue touch paper and running away and peeking out, just to see what happens.
But hopefully it's just to stimulate some views and conversation and not to start a punch up.
When it comes to technique, I tend to be blunt.
I'm just like that with all kinds of "factual" stuff, including Science and Engineering, even when talking face to face with someone.
Although I might not be able to play a fraction as well as a player I'm criticising, I've LISTENED to enough VERY GOOD players to be able to tell if something is not working technically....ie like the criticism of that good Tangos player's picado.
I didn't say it to put him down, more like just putting into words what was going through my head at the time.
I never mind any technical criticism myself.
It's not like someone is saying you've got a big nose or are ugly or something.
It's only technique, which should be something detached from the person, just like in Olympic running or playing pro level tennis.
A lot of coaches can't actually DO what they are asking others to do, but the know WHAT is wrong and can explain in fine detail, and IMO you are best just cutting to the chase and coming out with it rather than pussyfooting around with sugar coated stuff which in the long run is not actually helping the person really see what the problem is.
At the end of the day nobody needs to go nuts about anything.
It's only an Internet Forum and there are heaps of more worrying REAL issues which affect us in the real world surely?
Anyway...
Peace and Love and all that good sh*t.
cheers,
Ron
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Date Jan. 15 2009 9:24:36
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: Forum Etiquete (in reply to Florian)
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quote:
its fine to make suggestions respectfully but not to try and force your views on someone.....or to plain out dissmiss another member's taste or opinion
i agree x10
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Theres nothing more annoying than 1 person pretending to talk facts and telling you "HOW it is"...
Noone is stupid here and noone is a litlle kid
i agree x100
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i think if most people treated each other as they would in real life, most issues would not arise.
i agree with this too, my rule of thumb is to try not to say anything that i wouldn't say to someone's face.... i did say "try"!
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so dont ever feel self concious about making mistakes or asking someoneone to explain something you dont understand...not for a second.
Its nothing to be shy about...the oposite..we take it for granted but you guys really make an effort...much respect to you.
and this too, i just realised i used an idiom already "rule of thumb" it just means guideline, an approximate rule, not necessarily exact, but near enough.... will try not to use weird expressions like that, but PLEASE ask if you don't understand something
tried to put my birth year on the profile so anyone can see how old i am (39) but it wants the whole birthday and i didn't want to do that.... i don't want people i don't know drawing up my star chart and weird stuff like that (it happens!)
will try and get a picture on here.... it will probably be very cheesy (meaning corny) and give y'all a laff (er, that's a laugh in proper spelling)
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Just because some members dont chose to confront you and back off to avoid an argument dosent mean its ok to do it..
i think there's a bit of a problem on the foro just now, and i'm choosing to challenge some of it, with that saying "evil prospers when the good do nothing" in my mind. i'm not trying to set myself up as some kind of hero good guy or anything, it's just that i feel moved to say something in response to some of this stuff.... and i've had some pm of support, so i guess there must be other people biting their tongues (ie keeping quiet). not sure if it's the right thing to do or the right way to go about it, but like i said, i feel moved to say something.... and i am trying to be polite (forum etiquette?)
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Date Jan. 15 2009 10:09:22
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srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
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RE: Forum Etiquette (in reply to Florian)
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First of all, I’m in full agreement with everything that’s been mentioned here so far. I’m a chronic door-holder-opener and I always address elderly folks as “sir” and “ma’am”, so politeness and etiquette are pretty important to me. I’m also a strong advocate of healthy, vigorous debate, even argument, so long as it remains within the bounds of a mutually shared respect between all parties involved, and it’s definitely nice when all of the above works together harmoniously and we get a nice active place where all sorts of ideas and opinions start flying around but nobody gets their eye poked out.
I’ve mentioned before that this is the only forum I’ve ever taken part in, and so my frame of reference is a bit limited, but I think the Foro on the whole works very, very well in its set-up, administration, and in the overall manner in which its members going about putting the thing to use. But I do have one idea I’d like to float, as it touches on some of the stuff being addressed here and might be useful in keeping the emotional tone of the Foro operating healthily:
The rating system: always been my least favorite aspect of the Foro. When someone posts something that’s really helpful and informative and very positive, or when someone bravely uploads some of their own playing, then it’s nice to be able to give them “five stars” in acknowledgement of their contribution. But the whole “negative star” thing is generally unhelpful and I think fosters a very unpleasant, corrosive atmosphere at times. There are some definitely some lousy posts out there that are certainly deserving of some sort of thumbs-down, but I think in the end the negative star rating hurts more than it helps. I think it can too easily be used as a passive aggressive means of getting into a tussle with someone without being up front about it, and that sort of communication style generally doesn’t have good results. A lot of the time it just operates as a sort of neon sign, drawing everybody’s attention to the fact that some sort of trouble’s brewing. It’s like someone yelling “Fight! Fight!” in the school yard, and we all come running. At its worst it just devolves into a couple of folks negatively rating each other’s posts, not as a response to the actual content of the posts, but because they’re hashing out some personal grievances.
And the spectrum of the “-2” to “+2”, one to five star rating thing, is also confusing. That three-star “zero” rating seems like the ultimate in passive aggression. When I see that one I always get a queasy feeling and I see it as being worse than one star.
So, just some thoughts. I know that the rating system is a function of the Foro’s software, and I don’t know to what extent it can or cannot be changed, but my own modest-proposal opinion would be that the ideal rating scenario would either be to have a system whereby one can give some kind of thumbs-up to a helpful post, or to have no rating system at all.
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Date Jan. 15 2009 12:29:59
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srshea
Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest
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RE: Forum Etiquete (in reply to michel)
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Michel,
The language thing is a good point, and I know I’m certainly guilty of using language that might at times be obscure to a non-native English speaker. I’ve always been a big fan of slang and idioms (I used to read through old-time slang dictionaries when I was a kid.), and in my speech and writing I’ve always enjoyed mixing informal, idiomatic language with formal “King’s English”. And I swear like a sailor in person, but that doesn’t really fly around here (see, I can’t stop!). These are some pretty ingrained habits for me, but I will try to be mindful of the informal language issue in the future. And I also have to say that I’m regularly impressed with the level that so many second-languagers are able to operate on around here. I’m really glad English is my first language, because by all accounts, it’s a tough one to learn. But, also, think of it this way: not only do you get to learn all about flamenco here, but you also get an education in all kinds American, English, Irish , etc regionalisms and idioms! I’m a native-speaker, and a bit of a language-nerd ,and even I still come across stuff that’s new to me all the time, when Ron or someone comes by with some crazy Scottish slang I’ve never heard before.
Also, as someone who doesn’t really chat or communicate via the web all that much, I’ve never really cottoned on to the whole smiley thing (“cottoned on to” is today’s lesson in idiomatic English: means get used to, take a liking to, get comfortable using, etc. “Cottoned to” is also acceptable). I tend to have a very dry sense of humor, and I like to think that I’m clever enough in my jesting that my jokes will be understood and appreciated as the brilliant pearls of wit that I feel them to be, but well, I can imagine that that’s not always the case.  
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Date Jan. 15 2009 13:09:12
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michel
Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
From: france
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RE: Forum Etiquete (in reply to srshea)
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quote:
but please don't be afraid to ask if there is some thats used and you don't get it. I would do.
Hi Stu, thanks for help, next time i'll do so
quote:
think of it this way: not only do you get to learn all about flamenco here, but you also get an education in all kinds American, English, Irish , etc regionalisms and idioms! I’m a native-speaker, and a bit of a language-nerd ,and even I still come across stuff that’s new to me all the time, when Ron or someone comes by with some crazy Scottish slang I’ve never heard before.
totally agreed - i think it's better for me to learn about flamenco AND english, than only learn about flamenco:-) it's a chance for me to enlarge my horizon and get cottoned on caracteristics of the different english-speaking countries, i learned a lot since i logged in for the first time, that's also helpful in my daily life, imagine, before beeing member here, i wasn't able to write one sentence in english (i didn't use it at all after the school). Most of the time it's a pleasure reading idoms and trying to guess what can be meant, it 's only a problem when the posts are very long (and we had very long posts these days :-)
thank you all for your support and comprehension
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Date Jan. 15 2009 23:47:45
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Stu
Posts: 2526
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
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RE: Forum Etiquette (in reply to Florian)
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Everyone block people who are being offensive!! green button at the top of picture area.
I just did it to a certain member.
quote:
I think this is a very sad situation that anyone can come onto the forum and bully other members off it, can threaten other members, can ignore requests by admin, and can be as obnoxious and condescending as humanly possible with impunity
Yeah agreed, I've been a member of a facebook flamenco group for ages but never use it.
Irked with this forum, (parts of it) today I decided to check it out..... and to my absolute stupification. Jacinto is there too and his most recent thread is a carbon copy of what he's doing here!!!!!
I'm expecting him to turn up at my door like a Jehovahs witness and start telling me what's flamenco and whats not.
I deleted my angry rant from last night, but I'm feeling it all again now.
I know people are trying to be polite in their replies to him but... seriously,,, its like trying to put a fire out by squirting it with a water pistol!! we need to get a massive fire hose and spray this guy with gallons of water!!
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Date Jan. 16 2009 3:49:11
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yes but my score is 118 ...cant we wait until it starts to decrease ? 
