Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
|
|
|
RE: Forum Etiquette
|
You are logged in as Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic: none
|
|
Login  | |
|
   
Mark2
Posts: 1868
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
|
 RE: Forum Etiquette (in reply to Ron.M)
|
|
|
Damm, I didn't make the list......An old flamenco told me that the longer your in flamenco, the more people that hate you. Obviously, I'm still green behind the ears.
HemeolaMan - I'm sure you realize that there are different kinds of knowledge in flamenco. I'm like you in that I'm suspicious of any self proclaimed experts, but I'm downright dismissive of anyone who claims to know it all, or who claims to be right all the time.
There was an article written by John Moore which described the different kinds of knowledge that different afficiandos have, in which he illustrated, among other things, how someone who is not a performer may have certain types of knowledge that even professional performers don't. I have run into many people over the years who's knowledge far surpassed mine even if they didn't have as good an alzapua. Flamenco, unlike medicine, law, or journalism, requires no paper for one to be deemed an expert. It makes figuring out who is and who isn't a bit more difficult. I'm very cautious in making that determination based on posts on the internet.
I've never PMed Ron to ask for anyone to be banned. I doubt I ever will. I'm sure glad he didn't ban any of those people on the list, as they are mostly the best participants we have IMO.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ron.M
Hey calm down everyone!
It's only an Internet Forum for heaven's sake...
In Glasgow, when I was growing up, there were always kids running around and bubbling and shouting "Ahm gonny get mah big brother on you!"  to whoever upset them.
Unfortunately, it's impossible to be EVERYBODYS "big brother".
This is a list of people I've been asked by PMs to ban over the years.....
ToddK
Florian
Doitsujin
Estela
Koella
Flamencopuro
Miguel de Maria
Howard
Kate
Pimientito
Ricardo (yes!)
Anders Eliasson
Jacinto
and those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head!!
So you see the position here! 
And of course, I was then told I was totally hopeless as a Moderator when I could not fulfil their request.
So it's no that easy hen....ken fit ah mean?
(BTW a couple of them actually DID get banned!  )
cheers,
Ron
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 16 2009 13:41:12
 |
|
Exitao
Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada
|
|
RE: Forum Etiquette (in reply to Florian)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Florian
TO Exitao
Back on the subject for a sec..
We all get angry sometimes... sometimes justified sometimes unjustified..i dont have all the answers but theres always reasons behind it and its very important to the person who is angry..
If someone wanted to fix something like this ...you dont tell him "Calm down" "dont be angry".."enough"..u ask the problem and listen...try and find the best solution to your abilities to help...or atlist listen....we owe that much to everysingle one of our members....a forum is only as good as its members
not just love them when they are sharing free tab and the second they have a bad day we dont wanna know because it dosent affect us directly
You would feel betraid and unimportant if that was you
IMO
Everyone always feels they should be important. The fact is, very often, no one cares.
I used to argue (and fight), and keep at it when I knew I was right. Wiser people than me would tell me that sometimes (often), it doesn't matter who is right - especially when your fighting gets in other people's way. I didn't get it back then either.
As I said before, I don't mind a good debate. In fact, I wouldn't mind being made fully aware of what all that BS was about, if it could be done in a civil manner. Some things cannot debated in a civil way (and in this case, it wasn't Kate's fault, she was not the one frothing at the mouth, she merely wouldn't let him bow out).
When we have this kind of situation, it doesn't matter who is right, there's no point in arguing when the simple act of arguing will create enemies with people who actually don't care about the issue at all. Being right or proving your point doesn't always win you anything.
Like the over-analysing subject, over-doing it when arguing makes it no fun for everyone, and at that point we shuld have the right to say, "Please, STFU."
(I'm reminded of the Monty Python skit with Eric Idle and Michael Palin where the one guy in the travel agency won't shut up and the other guy shoots himself in the head to get away from him.)
_____________________________
Callidus et iracundus.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 16 2009 15:01:09
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
[Deleted]
|
|
|
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 17 2009 2:38:39
Reason for deletion: just troublemaking
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 16 2009 20:54:29
|
|
Exitao
Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada
|
|
RE: Forum Etiquette (in reply to Florian)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Florian
quote:
Everyone always feels they should be important. The fact is, very often, no one cares
well i cant speak for everyone..but i care..
I care that Kate is upset
I care that Mark Indigo was insulted.
I care that Jacinto backed himself into the corner
sorry but i do...they are all members here... we cant be everyman for himself all the time
I know u saying in fights noone wins...thats true...but u dont back off and let them kill themselfs or the stroghest one wins....or telling them " Stop fighting noone cares" wont make them stop.....using a philosopie u picked up from someone from a different set of cards will not fix this event..
all i am saying is look at the cards we have now...
there isnt one solution for every problem...u must asses each situation as it presents itself and on its own merit...right now telling Kate " Stop arguing noone cares" will not do a thing..
she will quit the forum feeling used, unimportant and unapreciated ..."Voila" ? problem solved ?
then Pimentito ? then Mark ? then John O ? then Arash ?...will that help the forum ?...because noone cares ? when do we start to care ? when there's noone left to care for us when we need it ?
u want a solution ? heres a fair solution..
give everyone a chance ....noone could ever accuse you for beeing too strict or unfair
Set some expectations, to fitt the situation at hand, make the reprecutions clear, monitor it and if someone disregards it.. enforce it...there can be no excuses after...everyone knows whats expected of them..everyone gets a fair chance..and the fighting stops one way or the other, forum happy/ people involved cant complain of not beeing threated fair/admin happy..looks like they have taken steps..everybodys happy....(enough people are unhappy enough ATM to make this a special circumstance)
its not that hard  that will solve it one way or the other...and its not unfair on anyone..because right now its not solved...the alternative is leaving them all displeased..and instead of losing one we risk losing 4 or 5.
practicaly, logicaly makes sense to me and its even 100% fair and equal under the current circumstances
if you want me to come up with a fair criteria for this specific situation il do that too
I don't want a fair solution. Life ain't fair. I want reasonable solution.
My solution? Prohibit the topic.
Unless a person is here to defend themselves, you can't attack them.
Imagine you are criticising someone harshly, and I tell you that I am a personal acquaintance of that person and I'm offended. "Dude, that's my friend and I don't want to hear you talk about him like that."
Maybe you say you won't change your opinion but you will back off and leave it at that. Same like you would do in real life with real people standing in front of you.
Other than that, no one should be fighting other peoples battles. I shouldn't have to defend my friend other than that.
If defending someone else's honour or being able to continue in a fight that is disturbing the forum is more important to a person than the forum, I don't see how that should constitute someone feeling used.
I happen to like both parties involved. I don't see how saying to the both of them, "we're sick of the fighting change the topic please or shut up" should make them feel used.
I feel used when people think this is a place where I should be forced to accept someone else's opinion or take a side in an argument.
_____________________________
Callidus et iracundus.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 16 2009 21:04:10
|
|
Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
|
|
RE: Forum Etiquette (in reply to Exitao)
|
|
|
quote:
I don't want a fair solution. Life ain't fair. I want reasonable solution.
My solution? Prohibit the topic.
what topic ? i am not talking about Estela i dont know what happened there, i hardly know her...i am talking about the people i do know, Kate, Mark and whomever else..
wich topic do we prohibit ? "flamenco fusion" modest proposal" "modest proposal part 2 " ? its not the topics that are the problem is the interaction between certain parties...whatever the topic.
With all the respect your solution is not a solution its a bandate...
quote:
If defending someone else's honour or being able to continue in a fight that is disturbing the forum is more important to a person than the forum, I don't see how that should constitute someone feeling used.
Again my concern is not Estela, ( no offence to her whatsoever) but i dont know her, i dont think i have ever spoken to her..As i said before you ases the problem you have now and solve that..
Well id feel used if i spent 6 years sharing my resources , loops, tabs, time, jokes to do my share for this place to contribuite to what it has become and when i needed it this place to listen they turned theyr back on me because it "disturbs the forum"..
Yeah Id feel unapreciated and used...have we made no bonds whatsoever as a forum all this years ? as long as the free tab keeps coming screw the man that uploaded last week ? hes interfearing with the free tab this week.
quote:
I feel used when people think this is a place where I should be forced to accept someone else's opinion or take a side in an argument.
I dont know whos making you feel that way ( are you refering to me ?)..u replie to me and i replie to you..2 opinions.
I am trying to make you accept my opinion as much as you are trying to make me accept yours..
Well i have said my piece...given my opinion...thats it...take it or leave it
I am not the admin here..i am going to take a step back...lets see how your solution of not moving a finger will work...for Kate, for Sean for Mark for Jacinto for Estela and others involved..and for the forums well beeing and functionality
lets see how good you problem solving skills are  and btw..."I told you so" is not beneath me ..I am at the place now where I am a litlle disillusioned if noone gives a s*it about anyone else here..we failed as a community...
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 17 2009 3:26:19
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
[Deleted]
|
|
|
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 17 2009 8:24:38
Reason for deletion: troublemaking
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 17 2009 8:04:22
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
[Deleted]
|
|
|
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 17 2009 8:25:13
Reason for deletion: troublemaking
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 17 2009 8:16:23
|
|
Exitao
Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada
|
|
RE: Forum Etiquette (in reply to Pimientito)
|
|
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pimientito
quote:
The fact is, very often, no one cares.
Exitao. Do you really believe that the flamenco world is that big? Do you really think that we are all faceless avatars in cyberspace?. The reason it gets so personal is because many forum members are personal friends and know each other outside of the forum. I know at least a dozen members personally and so of course you want to say something if they are being threatened or insulted.
Secondly, there are only a finite number of flamenco artists and if you are into flamenco you are going to end up meeting or knowing some of them and yes..sometimes your friends do get talked about badly.
Third- this isnt a knitting forum. Flamencos are generally more passionate than average people and are prone to getting excited or annoyed. Arguments like this come up every now and again.
Well, if the world is that small, then everyone can fight their own battles, thank you very much.
Otherwise, a forum of people, should be able to say, "enough of your bickering".
Some kinds of warfare are toxic to the environment. Similar to a Geneva Convention, we need to be able to regulate what kinds of fighting go on.
_____________________________
Callidus et iracundus.
|
|
|
|
REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 17 2009 11:24:47
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts
|
|
|
Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET |
0.078125 secs.
|
Printable Version
But I wonder why Kate is on that list... How come?