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RE: Rose Rosette on Primera/A-1 Models
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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 RE: Rose Rosette on Primera/A-1 Models (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)
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quote:
Salvador Castillo was selling guitars he built for around $2,000 USD--and these were commissions he personally built himself. Now, GSI carries his guitars and the price is $3,500 each! Other than a profit motive how can GSI account for the approximate 50 percent increase in price?
Not to defend GSI, Phg_Flamenco, but the issue is now truning onto retailer's mark-ups. The devil's advocate question could be reversed to wonder why certain retailers apply standardized and expected mark-up rates, while others either over-charge or under-charge, compared to such threshold. Typically mark ups will vary according to different industries but 2 (twice the wholesale price) could be used as generalized rate (naturally it could be 3 times as much, as it is customarily for wine in restaurants).
Under-pricing could be viewed as unfair means of competing, but our US market allows either, and your caveat buyer will be the sole caution.
But pricing is also a marketing choice, which may determine the success of failure of either a supplier or a retailer offering the goods. GSI bills itself as the luxury boutique of classical and flamenco guitars, promoting competent advice and professionalism in a way that I find unique. I too had my shares of problems with GSI, but must report that ultimately were all most satisfactorily sorted out, also because of that courtesy and professionalism. GSI seems to enjoy a serious network of musicians and collectors gravitating about their product, and that will ensure constant top quality stock (see Reyes or Hausers) along with a fairly quick disposition of used or new instruments.
In my own case, service was excellent. We had a few disagreements about the action of one intsrument, but so do we on this Forum after all.
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Date Jan. 6 2009 17:41:20
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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RE: Rose Rosette on Primera/A-1 Models (in reply to gj Michelob)
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quote:
As to the back and side of my "Caviuna" Conde Hermanos, don't you think this is brazilian or madagascar?
Mike, its impossible to say. It could be whatever brownish wood with figure. I would say Caviuna because its what it says on the label. Also the color is relatively Caviuna, even close to Pau Ferro on the sides. Some of the wood sold as caviuna is being sold under the same latin name as Pau Ferro (Machaerium) In fact, if you had given me the option of chosing Pau Ferro as well, then I would have said that. Look at the inside of the guitar. How big are the pores in the wood. Are they as big as on East Indian Rosewood?
2 things I know:
first, That many builders sell guitars called Braz rosewood and they are made with Caviuna.
second: A lot of Caviuna is being sold and few guitars are sold as Caviuna guitars.
I have decided not to buy anymore Braz, Caviuna, Madagascar, Jacaranda at the moment. The quality is VERY low and prices are VERY high. Its just one big cheat.
Last here you have a guitar that I made with Madagascar. This wood can have other color tones as well. But this is quite typical. Its easy to distinguish by its smell. Its sharp, especially when heated and very different from Braz or Caviuna
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Date Jan. 6 2009 23:30:50
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: Rose Rosette on Primera/A-1 Models (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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Thank you John and Anders. I guess we could coin a new word after this.
CAVIUNA: hoax, deception, scam, generally the practice of deliberately making somebody believe things that are not true
such as in
verb: "i have been Caviuna'd into that scham", or noun: "that is so a Caviuna, man, watch out" or plural: "ain't falling for no Caviunas no more, dude, once bitten twice shy" adjective: "i do not trust his Caviuna Face", adverb "He was Caviunally persuading me to buy a guitar made of Brazilian Rosewood, which it was so not"!!!
I feel a slight yet unfailingly disturbing sense that I have been taken for a ride with my conde. I will love her regardless, perhaps more knowing her imperfect pedegree... yet...
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gj Michelob
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Date Jan. 7 2009 8:57:38
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: Rose Rosette on Primera/A-1 Models (in reply to Tom Blackshear)
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quote:
Looking closely at it, Michelob, I would have to say it isn't the old Rio or Jacaranda, (Dalbergia Nigra) that I have worked with for the past 50 years; that comes in many different shades and colors. But it is a nice piece of work, imo. Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
'nice of you to intervene, Tom, with a comforting perspective.
When i resumed playing guitar, after a 10 year break, i purchased a classical guitar with B/S in a brazilian which turned out to be "cocobolo" (i had ordered the instrument and realized the banal trick upon seeing the pretty reddish shades). I did not buy this conde for the Brazilian, but notwithstanding it might have been that tricky madera. but i always thought it was madagascar rose... here is another pic from the Felipe V line, what are your thoughts..?
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Date Jan. 7 2009 10:19:48
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Ricardo
Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Rose Rosette on Primera/A-1 Models (in reply to gj Michelob)
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My friends are from Bolivia and used to work in a guitar shop there. I think for a long time, many instruments were made with wood that looks like brazillian but is not. I showed some questionable ones to my friends, and they could name the trees they recognized,none Brazillian Rio. I personally don't care much, I think they are all pretty. Thing is, even in Bolivia, most of those trees are protected too. So even though it is not true Brazilian, it is just as illegal to use it now a days. The way the poachers do it is they cut logs in Bolivia, and send them down the river, so they don't have to take them out of the country. Sell it as Brazillian rosewood or something else from a different indigenous area, after they collect it.
Interesting that they did DNA testing and revealed Caviuna was NOT brazillian rosewood.
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Date Jan. 7 2009 11:29:57
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Tom Blackshear
Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
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RE: Rose Rosette on Primera/A-1 Models (in reply to gj Michelob)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gj Michelob
quote:
Looking closely at it, Michelob, I would have to say it isn't the old Rio or Jacaranda, (Dalbergia Nigra) that I have worked with for the past 50 years; that comes in many different shades and colors. But it is a nice piece of work, imo. Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
'nice of you to intervene, Tom, with a comforting perspective.
When i resumed playing guitar, after a 10 year break, i purchased a classical guitar with B/S in a brazilian which turned out to be "cocobolo" (i had ordered the instrument and realized the banal trick upon seeing the pretty reddish shades). I did not buy this conde for the Brazilian, but notwithstanding it might have been that tricky madera. but i always thought it was madagascar rose... here is another pic from the Felipe V line, what are your thoughts..?
Whatever it is, I think the beauty of it is what compels us to look further at the other aspects of the guitar. Personally, Brazilian rosewood has a tendency to crack when you least expect it. The current guitar I'm working on is no exception, even though it is a beautiful wood. A builder will try to cover all the bases with it, as best he can, but this is the personality of Jacaranda. This is the reason most well known American builders have a limited warranty on it.
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
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Date Jan. 7 2009 11:40:34
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: Rose Rosette on Primera/A-1 Models (in reply to Tom Blackshear)
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dipquote:
Whatever it is, I think the beauty of it is what compels us to look further at the other aspects of the guitar. Personally, Brazilian rosewood has a tendency to crack when you least expect it. The current guitar I'm working on is no exception, even though it is a beautiful wood. A builder will try to cover all the bases with it, as best he can, but this is the personality of Jacaranda. This is the reason most well known American builders have a limited warranty on it.
Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
Diplomatically impeccable, Tom, or flawlessly PC, as they more losely say these days. I was hoping for an answer.... but i do realize the images may not provide all required data. I would hate to scratch the wood to submit to analysis, but i am tempted, just to settle this.
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Date Jan. 7 2009 12:22:03
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Tom Blackshear
Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
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RE: Rose Rosette on Primera/A-1 Models (in reply to gj Michelob)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gj Michelob
dipquote:
Whatever it is, I think the beauty of it is what compels us to look further at the other aspects of the guitar. Personally, Brazilian rosewood has a tendency to crack when you least expect it. The current guitar I'm working on is no exception, even though it is a beautiful wood. A builder will try to cover all the bases with it, as best he can, but this is the personality of Jacaranda. This is the reason most well known American builders have a limited warranty on it.
Tom Blackshear Guitar maker
Diplomatically impeccable, Tom, or flawlessly PC, as they more losely say these days. I was hoping for an answer.... but i do realize the images may not provide all required data. I would hate to scratch the wood to submit to analysis, but i am tempted, just to settle this.
If you are asking if the picture is showing Brazilian rosewood, then yes, this looks very similar to an old piece I used on one of my classical guitars. I think GSI resold that one with a rose rosette and spruce top.
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Date Jan. 7 2009 13:39:09
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cathulu
Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan
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RE: Rose Rosette on Primera/A-1 Models (in reply to gj Michelob)
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quote:
ORIGINAL:
I feel a slight yet unfailingly disturbing sense that I have been taken for a ride with my conde. I will love her regardless, perhaps more knowing her imperfect pedegree... yet...
gj Michelob, I don't know why you feel slighted, the guitar label says Caviuna so what is the problem? I think you have a very beautiful guitar and you should be proud of it!
Mr. Eliasson - I commend you, I am glad you decide not to partake, if I was earning Euros and in Europe you would have my business. All this thrust for exotic woods and otherwise - we would cut down every god damned thing to get at it. The Pacific Northwest was thought almost to be limitless, now we are struggling to save what little Old Growth forest there is. You fly over and there are bald patches all over, or plantations with no genetic diversity. If there was one last Brazilian Rosewood it would still be cut down. Look at Europe, we think the Italian / Greek countryside is as it always has been - hell know, it use to be forests. We cut it all down. We are damned.
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Date Jan. 9 2009 20:15:40
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. That one cost me $2500 back when that was a lot more money than it is now. 
) thread, you´ll see that when it comes to classifying brownish wood from South America, a picture is not enough. You have to very experienced to distinguish. The Guardia Civil knew that and made DNA tests...... 