RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar

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Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Armando)

Aaron: ¿Juevos? do you mean Huevos?

TomB, Calling flexing the top with your fingers to be esoteric is a bit.......

Thats the most common way of deciding a top. And I bet its what you do yourself in some part of construction in order to determine the characteristics of the piece of wood that you are working. I find that the information a top gives you by working this way is a lot more precise than some meassurement. All tops are different and a calipers scale is not capable of meassuring that.

In the end its the capacity of understanding the info you get from your calipers, your sensitivity in your fingers, your ears and the info that your eyes give you, that will decide when a thickness is right.

The use of a taptone is good, especially when the guitar has been assembled. But I dont believe in that one taptone is right. I have tried many guitars with a G taptone that was way to stiff and I have tried some which were very nice.
I find that it depends on your bracing system. A 7 piece fan where each brace is between 6 and 8mm wide (As reyes) or 7mm wide (as Torres/Hauser), in my experience tune higher than one where the braces are 5mm wide and higher. This could be the reason that Armandos guitar is a little on the tight side. maybe the braces should be a little bit looser (thinner)

But again. To me Armandos guitar sounds good. See how it works after 1/2 year. warmer weather etc. changes guitars sound.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2008 23:53:09

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Armando)

Aaron: ¿Juevos? do you mean Huevos?

TomB, Calling flexing the top with your fingers to be esoteric is a bit.......

Thats the most common way of deciding a top. And I bet its what you do yourself in some part of construction in order to determine the characteristics of the piece of wood that you are working. I find that the information a top gives you by working this way is a lot more precise than some meassurement. All tops are different and a calipers scale is not capable of meassuring that.

In the end its the capacity of understanding the info you get from your calipers, your sensitivity in your fingers and the info that your eyes give you, that will decide when a thickness is right.

The use of a taptone is good, especially when the guitar has been assembled. But I dont believe in that one taptone is right. I have tried many guitars with a G taptone that was way to stiff and I have tried some which were very nice.
I find that it depends on your bracing system. A 7 piece fan where each brace is between 6 and 8mm wide (As reyes) or 7mm wide (as Torres/Hauser), in my experience tune higher than one where the braces are 5mm wide and higher. This could be the reason that Armandos guitar is a little on the tight side. maybe the braces should be a little bit looser (thinner)

But again. To me Armandos guitar sounds good. See how it works after 1/2 year. warmer weather etc. changes guitars sound.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 11 2008 23:54:27

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

I think Jose approaches this issue a little differently if I'm not mistaken. In 1995 at the GAL convention Jose basically approached the top stiffness in sort of a esoteric way; not really giving thicknesses but showing how he bent the top with his fore-finger and thumb according to top stiffness, or if you can add any more to this.........

Tom

Yes, that's the way José does it. As with most things he is following the Torres tradition with this method. In that point i agree with Anders that in that this very traditional method cannot really be called esoteric. I wonder always how it is possible that some luthiers such as Jeronimo Peña Fernandez write in their books: a flamenco guitar has a top thickness of 2.2mm and the back sould be 2.1mm or similar. Such absolute numbers do not consider the individual properties of the material used. If a specific measurement was right on a particular guitar, then it doesn't mean the measurements works on another guitar as well. Therefore feeling the flex and resistance of the top by using the Torres method is a basically a good thing to do.

Regarding the tuning of a soundboard to a specific key, i don't think it's impossible to do allthough i'm sure it's very difficult, because the pitch of the soundboard changes, once the sides and the neck is attached and it changes again, once the soundbox is closed. So in order to land at the right pitch with all parts is a hard thing to do.
Romanillos indeed has a different approch on this things as well. He just don't believe that it is possible to change the sound of the guitar to the better by tuning parts to specific pitches. There i think is a cultural gap between spanish makers and american makers, or a cultural gap between the left and the right brain lutherie approach.

quote:

Hi Armando
Very, very nice. Sounds really good... clear, fast and articulate. I have seen a number of Reyes' and his guitars are near and dear to my heart. They tend to have a real aristocratic voice as well as juevos to spare. In any case you seem to be in the right ballpark which is good to see.

Thanks Aaron for your comments on my guitar.

I feel honoured to hear that from you. Thanks also for all your advice an help in the past.

regards

Armando

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2008 0:50:55

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

I think Jose approaches this issue a little differently if I'm not mistaken. In 1995 at the GAL convention Jose basically approached the top stiffness in sort of a esoteric way; not really giving thicknesses but showing how he bent the top with his fore-finger and thumb according to top stiffness, or if you can add any more to this.........

Tom

Yes, José has indeed a different approch to this but i agree in this point with Anders, that it is a bit... to call that method esoteric. I think that's probably the most traditional method used by spanish luthiers to determine the stiffness of bracings and tops. José is using this Torres method as with most things he does.

Sometimes i wonder how come that some luthiers write in their books that top and back of a flamenco guitar should have this or that specific thickness. I think that such recommendations do not consider the individual material used by the luthier at all.
I think to tune a top to specific pitch is not impossible allthough very difficult. As you know for sure, the pitch changes once the sides and the neck is attached and it changes again once the soundbox is closed.
José doesn't belive either that it is possible change the sound of a guitar to the better by just tuning some parts of the guitar to specific pitches, but i think that's a cultural issue between spanish makers and american makers, or maybe more generally said, between the left brain and the right brain approch.

Thinning the struts on a ready assembled guitar in order to balance the soundboard response is something that i believe in too.

quote:

Hi Armando
Very, very nice. Sounds really good... clear, fast and articulate. I have seen a number of Reyes' and his guitars are near and dear to my heart. They tend to have a real aristocratic voice as well as juevos to spare. In any case you seem to be in the right ballpark which is good to see.

Aaron

Thanks for your comments on my guitar.

I feel honoured to hear that from you. Thanks for all your advice and help in the past.

regards

Armando

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2008 1:13:28

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Armando)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Armando

quote:

I think Jose approaches this issue a little differently if I'm not mistaken. In 1995 at the GAL convention Jose basically approached the top stiffness in sort of a esoteric way; not really giving thicknesses but showing how he bent the top with his fore-finger and thumb according to top stiffness, or if you can add any more to this.........

Tom

<snip> I wonder always how it is possible that some luthiers such as Jeronimo Peña Fernandez write in their books: a flamenco guitar has a top thickness of 2.2mm and the back sould be 2.1mm or similar. Such absolute numbers do not consider the individual properties of the material used. If a specific measurement was right on a particular guitar, then it doesn't mean the measurements works on another guitar as well. Therefore feeling the flex and resistance of the top by using the Torres method is a basically a good thing to do.

Regarding the tuning of a soundboard to a specific key, i don't think it's impossible to do allthough i'm sure it's very difficult, because the pitch of the soundboard changes, once the sides and the neck is attached and it changes again, once the soundbox is closed. So in order to land at the right pitch with all parts is a hard thing to do.

Romanillos indeed has a different approch on this things as well. He just don't believe that it is possible to change the sound of the guitar to the better by tuning parts to specific pitches. There i think is a cultural gap between spanish makers and american makers, or a cultural gap between the left and the right brain lutherie approach.............

Tuning tops is not all that hard once you understand the approach to top tuning specific guitars. In this case we are referring to the Reyes style flamenco guitar.

You have built only one guitar with this style so I understand that you have not gotten to a place to decipher the tone/key of the top and make it work to your advantage.

Don't worry about that since it is relatively easy to determine the key by certain easy steps to follow. Personally, I think you did a good job on this guitar with the technique you used.

If you are interested I can give you an easy approach that makes sense but I'll have to do it off line since I normally charge for this information, and I feel that giving it out on a public forum defeats the purpose of my techniques to make a living with.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 12 2008 4:12:20

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

osé doesn't belive either that it is possible change the sound of a guitar to the better by just tuning some parts of the guitar to specific pitches, but i think that's a cultural issue between spanish makers and american makers, or maybe more generally said, between the left brain and the right brain approch.

You´re right. The Spanish builders with whom I have discussed these things agree with Romanillos. And funny enough also the Non Spanish builders living here.
I think tap tones give info, but its difficult to use. You have to use the same bracing system for a while and only make slight chances at a time. and also try to use soundboards which are very alike.
This is the way I work and taptones give me usefull info on how well balanced a soundboard is. Also I think its easyer to aply on symetrical bracing systems (Torres, Conde etc.) than on asymerical ones (Reyes fleta etc.) where the two sides have different taptones.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 0:55:52

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Don't worry about that since it is relatively easy to determine the key by certain easy steps to follow. Personally, I think you did a good job on this guitar with the technique you used.

If you are interested I can give you an easy approach that makes sense but I'll have to do it off line since I normally charge for this information, and I feel that giving it out on a public forum defeats the purpose of my techniques to make a living with.

TomB. You have said these things so many times on this foro. That your plan is so easy to tune, that everything is in the plan etc fine tuning, voicing, hum hum, hym hym.
You always end up with saying you wont go into details because its something you charge for or because its to complicated for the forum.

To me, this ends up being something very mystical, so maybe we should call you the esoterical builder.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 1:00:28

Taranto

Posts: 213
Joined: Apr. 7 2005

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

If you are interested I can give you an easy approach that makes sense but I'll have to do it off line since I normally charge for this information, and I feel that giving it out on a public forum defeats the purpose of my techniques to make a living with.

I am considering taking your instructions. What does it cost and what is the scope of instructions i.e. number of pages etc.?

Thanks, Taranto

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 1:20:29

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

quote:

Don't worry about that since it is relatively easy to determine the key by certain easy steps to follow. Personally, I think you did a good job on this guitar with the technique you used.

If you are interested I can give you an easy approach that makes sense but I'll have to do it off line since I normally charge for this information, and I feel that giving it out on a public forum defeats the purpose of my techniques to make a living with.

TomB. You have said these things so many times on this foro. That your plan is so easy to tune, that everything is in the plan etc fine tuning, voicing, hum hum, hym hym.
You always end up with saying you wont go into details because its something you charge for or because its to complicated for the forum.

To me, this ends up being something very mystical, so maybe we should call you the esoterical builder.

Anders,

All I'm saying is that I would rather not share this technical information on an open/public forum but if you or any other builder here, on this list, would like to know what I do, then please feel free to contact me at my e-mail address tguitars@texas.net and I'll be happy to share what I know with you, as long as it doesn't get too lengthy, for times sake. And my sharing of this information is about the Reyes design, articulation, and sound, only, I don't have the time to get into other guitar making issues, Thanks.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 5:47:30

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Taranto)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taranto

quote:

If you are interested I can give you an easy approach that makes sense but I'll have to do it off line since I normally charge for this information, and I feel that giving it out on a public forum defeats the purpose of my techniques to make a living with.

I am considering taking your instructions. What does it cost and what is the scope of instructions i.e. number of pages etc.?

Thanks, Taranto

If you are in my neighborhood then I give a 5 day hands-on fine-tuning class for $1,500. This covers the class, food, and lodging at my home or in a small hotel down the road, and you provide your own transportation to and from the class. The class normally is in session from 10 AM to 4 PM with a break for lunch. If you are staying at our home then this provides a lot of extra time to talk about guitars.

If you are more interested in e-mail correspondance then the same goes for you that I said to Anders. No Charge for some simple time used for e-mail; as long as it's about the Reyes design.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 6:02:23

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear
No Charge for some simple time used for e-mail; as long as it's about the Reyes design.

haha, you seem to have a good sense of humor! I have to admit, whenever i read Mr. Blackshears posts, i end up not wanting a Reyes GUITAR but a Reyes PLAN.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 7:25:42

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear
No Charge for some simple time used for e-mail; as long as it's about the Reyes design.

haha, you seem to have a good sense of humor! I have to admit, whenever i read Mr. Blackshears posts, i end up not wanting a Reyes GUITAR but a Reyes PLAN.

Well, Don Reyes has a 22 year wait list that he'll never be able to fill so I feel that he wouldn't mind if I taught some of the principles that he might use to make a flamenco guitar. The point here is to give out a few bits of information on this particular plan not spend a lot of time on other guitar issues.

When I started building guitars in 1957 I would have done anything to have this information, that was not illegal, immoral, or fattening

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 9:22:26

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hi all

Here's another small sequence:

http://www.spanishguitars.ch/videoclips/video3.wmv

regards

Armando

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 14:05:49

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Armando)

Armando,

Did you use a different plantilla? this guitar looks more like a Santos. Perhaps it just looks smaller on the video.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 14:24:02

aarongreen

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hi Anders,
Yes I meant Huevos. With an H, like Ho-say and Humeya. You know, where the wine comes from.

I was in a liquor store a while ago and asked the wine guy if they had any wines from Jumilla. He said he's never heard of them. I then said, Jew-mila. He goes, oh yes they're right over here.....:)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 20:51:08

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

So what you really meant was cojones

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 13 2008 22:58:13

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to TANúñez)

quote:

Did you use a different plantilla? this guitar looks more like a Santos. Perhaps it just looks smaller on the video.

TANúñez

No, the plantilla is exactly as indicated on the Reyes plan.

quote:

I was in a liquor store a while ago and asked the wine guy if they had any wines from Jumilla.

Aaron

Better ask for Rio-cha instead of Jew-mila.

regards

Armando

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 14 2008 1:21:20

sig

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Armando)

Armando,
Great sounding instrument and a very accomplished player I might add but it appears that the dog isn't a Flamenco aficionado :)
Sig--

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2008 12:20:21

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Armando)

Hey Armando,
Do you know Claudio Marmoud?

BTW Nice crisp sounding guitar there!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2008 12:38:25

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hy Ron.M

Claudio Marmoud? Never heard...

Ahhh you mean Claudio Mermoud! Yes, of course i know him. He was my former flamenco guitar teacher and he's the guy that tests all my guitars.

regards

Armando

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2008 13:06:27

flamencoguru

Posts: 271
Joined: Jun. 30 2004
From: West Palm Beach, Florida USA

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hello

Amando, sounds like a great guitar. Congradulations!! You should be proud. As far as Reyes is concerned. They are great instuments but I don't see the reason for all of the hype. Yeah... Vicente, Tomatito and several others play them. Don't forget that many other players play other great guitars. I can tell you from a very reliable source that the majority of the Reyes guitars that come to the States have to go through an American luthier's hands for proper set up and finishing. I've probably played 10 Reyes in my life, 1 of which was excellent (it was at GSI and at that time,in 2002, they were asking $11,000. It was a 1976). The others were ok. I didn't see any real magic in them. Again, that's just my opinion.

That's just the way Spanish guitars are made, especially Andalusian guitars.

Also Amando, even though you made a copy I'm sure your guitar has part of you in it..... at least I hope so. Why are so many luthiers obsessed with copying Reyes. Don't they want make their own guitars?

Un saludo, Errol

P.S. Great playing..... BTW, you're in compas.

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Errol Putigna
http://www.myspace.com/flamencoguru
http://www.youtube.com/flamencoguru

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2008 8:33:12

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to flamencoguru)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flamencoguru

Hello

Amando, sounds like a great guitar. Congradulations!! You should be proud. As far as Reyes is concerned. They are great instuments but I don't see the reason for all of the hype. Yeah... Vicente, Tomatito and several others play them. Don't forget that many other players play other great guitars. I can tell you from a very reliable source that the majority of the Reyes guitars that come to the States have to go through an American luthier's hands for proper set up and finishing. I've probably played 10 Reyes in my life, 1 of which was excellent (it was at GSI and at that time,in 2002, they were asking $11,000. It was a 1976). The others were ok. I didn't see any real magic in them. Again, that's just my opinion.

That's just the way Spanish guitars are made, especially Andalusian guitars.

Also Amando, even though you made a copy I'm sure your guitar has part of you in it..... at least I hope so. Why are so many luthiers obsessed with copying Reyes. Don't they want make their own guitars?

Un saludo, Errol

P.S. Great playing..... BTW, you're in compas.

I think I could answer this as well as anybody in saying that the Reyes plan is just another guitar plan that has some information on it that helps guitar makers get a little extra knowledge about the guitar. Every maker; especially the master builders, will have something intersting to show other builders.

The fact that Reyes changes his patterns ever so slightly on occasion, shows us that not all of his experiments turn out excellent. From time to time they speak in another direction, but when a truly good Reyes winds up on a plan for builders to use, then it will always cause quite a stir in the building community.

If more plans like this, of other master makers, were to show up on the list of recent plans, then I think there would be more interest in them. As it is, many of the guitar plans today don't present much information for the builder to use.

Not many additional small details are presented on most plans.

_____________________________

Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2008 10:24:09

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Armando)

LoL Armando,

OK, Mermoud!!

I've seen a couple of his videos on the Internet over the last couple of years and I really like his "vibe", for want of a better word.

I recognised him immediately on playing your video clip.

I don't know anything about him except I think he lives in Germany and is part of a Flamenco group...I don't know if they do it Pro or Semi-Pro or what...

Anyway, do tell him I was asking after him and say a big "olé" from me if you
see him.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2008 11:33:49

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hi Ron.M

I'm surprised you know Claudio.

Claudio is Swiss and he lives in Zurich, where i live. He is playing in a flamenco group called "cuadro flamenco Rafael Segura".

http://www.cuadro-flamenco.ch/

He teaches flamenco guitar professionally in Zürich.

regards

Armando

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2008 12:32:13

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

Also Amando, even though you made a copy I'm sure your guitar has part of you in it..... at least I hope so. Why are so many luthiers obsessed with copying Reyes. Don't they want make their own guitars?

Flamencoguru

Thanks Errol for your compliments.

I never even touched a real Reyes guitar, so i just have the sound of Vicente Amigo in my ears. O.k. that sound is louring and it has motivated me to go for the Reyes design, but as already mentioned in another post, it is not a 100% copy of a Reyes guitar. It has elements of Romanillos and i know it has a personal touch which is neither Reyes nor Romanillos but Ruckli-Santos.
This Reyes model is just a step on my path to find my own design and sound.
So far i couldn't find it. Even if i'm quite satisfied with the result of that guitar as well, i'm still not where i would like to be, so the research continues.

btw. the guy who plays is my teacher not myself.

best regards

Armando

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2008 12:52:41

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Also Amando, even though you made a copy I'm sure your guitar has part of you in it..... at least I hope so. Why are so many luthiers obsessed with copying Reyes. Don't they want make their own guitars?

I agree.

I have tried a rew Reyes. One was very nice but the asking price for it was 18000,-€

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2008 23:17:20

Stephen Rees

Posts: 32
Joined: Oct. 4 2007
From: Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Armando)

quote:

btw. the guy who plays is my teacher not myself.

No, that's definitely not Armando ...... not unless he has had a tough life over the past couple of years and has aged considerably as a result !

Hi Armando,

Congratulations on your Ruckli-Santos guitar, it sounds great.

I'm glad that things are progressing well with your guitar making.....keep on working on 'Your' sound !

All the best,
Steve

_____________________________

Stephen Rees - UK
www.reesguitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2008 0:36:44

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hi Stephen

What a surprise to hear from you

Thanks for your compliments on my guitar. I definitely benefited from the course also for my flamenco guitars.

Btw. Yes, i really had a tough life since we met us at the course. However i don't look quite much as old as the guy who plays my guitar. O.k. i mean he is probably 15 years older than me.

best regards and i wish you also a lot of success with your own building.

Armando

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 17 2008 8:44:32

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Armando)

quote:

Yes, José has indeed a different approch to this but i agree in this point with Anders, that it is a bit... to call that method esoteric. I think that's probably the most traditional method used by spanish luthiers to determine the stiffness of bracings and tops. José is using this Torres method as with most things he does.

I think it's a bit esoteric in the sense that Jose didn't discuss any measurements with us at the GAL meeting, but just how the top should feel.

I believe it's better to, at least, show the student a measurement from which to work around, in a general area. Measurements are good to know when working with any musical instrument. And this doesn't mean the exact same thickness on all guitars of the same design but a medium from which to work.

And another thing is that not all guitars work on the same principle Jose used, they can take on various top thicknesses, and according to many flamenco guitars, the top can be completely flat rather than graduated thinner at the edges.

I understand that Jose knows this issue quite well but you were his student building his design.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 20 2008 10:24:44

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Videoclip of my Reyes Model Guitar (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

And another thing is that not all guitars work on the same principle Jose used, they can take on various top thicknesses, and according to many flamenco guitars, the top can be completely flat rather than graduated thinner at the edges.

Tom

Yes, i agree with you on that. Now as i know more about the Reyes design i have to admit, that the two designs are quite different and in some aspects opposed to each other. We should not forget that José builds classical guitars only. In contrast to all other spanish luthiers, he was the one who desided to take students and teach them, so i went to his course and learned from him. Now as he was my teacher, i'm somehow try to follow his line as i like the way he works. I've realized that many things are equal to the flamenco guitar making, some others aren't. So this other flamenco specific things are mostly known by theory, but maybe practically there are still some abilities that i'm missing.

Regarding the flat soundboard, i know that most spanish makers from the pre Torres era have built their guitars with flat tops. After Torres successfully introduced the domed soundboard, most guitarmakers changed to this new design. Today i don't know any spanish flamenco guitar maker who builds with totally flat tops, so i think Reyes must be an exception.

quote:

I believe it's better to, at least, show the student a measurement from which to work around, in a general area. Measurements are good to know when working with any musical instrument. And this doesn't mean the exact same thickness on all guitars of the same design but a medium from which to work.

Well, i guess José didn't showed measurements because this could be easily taken as a reference measurement by some listeners. At his guitarmaking course he showed a detailled plan of his 1973 Julien Bream model, so there is nothing for him to hide.

As i've allready mentioned i don't either support those guitarmakers who come up with certain measurement like they were valid in general for every guitar. José for instance showed us one of his guitars with the top being about 1,5mm thick. He added the comment, that such a thickness could only work with the stiffest sort of spruce. On the course there was a student who built his soundboard of quite bad quality spruce so the top ended having a thickness of 2,7mm in the center and José said that's fine. So you see, the difference might be more than a mm depending on the material used.
Yes of course he could take the average between best and worst which would mean that a soundboard should be 2,1mm thick, but is that accurate?
Therefore i agree with José that it is much more important to develop the senses and feel the wood and when the flex is right.

regards

Armando

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2008 13:26:22