RE: America

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RE: America

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Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: America (in reply to ChiyoDad)

quote:

And if you believe Obama is a socialist for favoring a higher tax bracket for the wealthy, then you should check out these videos

Not everything in the world is about the money. There is plenty under the facade there to worry about except taxes.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 12:06:14

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: America (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron, I'm not fond of politicians either, but there can be significant differences between individual candidates and like it or not politics and politicians will be a necessary evil until someone comes up with a better way of doing things.

Chiyo, I like the second clip--interesting that the "DemRapidResponse" thinks this hurts McCain, because it does the opposite. What people are referring to in their criticism of Obama as a socialist is that after crunching the numbers his proposal cannot work without affecting a broader group of citizens. Add to this the fact that Obama voted "present"--i. e., he abstained on most of the controversial votes it is difficult to know what he will do if elected (and this has consistently worked to his advantage as a candidate). Even with Obama's extremely limited experience one would expect some pattern of policy or opinion on difficult issues, but Obama's voting record makes him a political phantom--a politician with little substance. I know he’s a nice person, but let’s be honest about his lack of substantive political accomplishments. McCain on the other hand has been voting and stating his positions for decades and where are the Democratic pundits to hoist him on his own petard? It hasn’t happened and that says a lot about McCain.

Anyone interested in knowing who (the Democratic leadership) is actually to blame for the housing and worldwide financial crisis should watch this video.

http://ericodom.name/2008/10/01/video-burning-down-the-house/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 12:12:32

ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Bogdan, of course. The matter is, if you were to look at all the political advertising that is currently being fielded, most of it seems to be focusing on "redistribution of wealth" and the fear of "socialism" (as if tiered tax brackets never existed in the US).

It's a red herring (no pun intended).

Pgh, even McCain's economic plans do not add-up. I've examined them as best as I can with the aid of data from The Economist, the WSJ, and The Financial Times. The only thing I can give him credit for is his ideology for holding to free trade.

Where McCain primarily lost my interest were his selection of a VP running-mate and his lack of coherence and organization for running a political campaign. I expected to see him multi-tasking, in control, and using good and calm judgment. IMHO, he should have gone with his original plans to choose someone like Joe Liebermann or even Romney for VP. The "base" might not have been energized, but they would have eventually come around.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 12:33:06

alaskaal

Posts: 51
Joined: Jan. 10 2005
From: Chugiak, Alaska

RE: America (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Hey Al, it is good to see another Alaskan on the forum. I grew up in Fairbanks a long time ago. I know exactly who Woodsey is(from your other login). I remember the commercials as a kid. Take care gents and know that even though you don't hear much, you are not alone.

I had some consulting work in Fairbanks a few years ago and lived there for six months. I has changed a little, Home Depot and Walmart, but is much the same as it has always been.

There are many amazing musicians living up here. It is easy to be a big fish in a small pond as well. When someone attains a degree of commercial success they usually move out of state to Seattle, or Nashville. I'm sort of working my retirement plan here and although I go outside (that means leave the state) for a concert or two, I am committed to living here.

I loved the Woodsey Owl ads and when I got sideways with an environmental company one time, decided to come out with my own Woodsey Al character. He was an overweight, bearded redneck, shirtless, dressed in coveralls coated in crude oil. The slogan plastered across his picture was "XXX (Name of Company) can pitch a fit, Woodsey Al don't give a $--T!" My music publishing outfit is called Woodsey Al Music. I dropped the slogan.

America gives us the freedom to do outrageous things. We may end up paying for them, but we can do them.

Al

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 13:07:08

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Mark2)

quote:

Too few people understand what is going on in the USA-especially people who are not from the USA.

ofcourse not

why should they...hes not my president , dosent affect me, i am sure noone in the US is going to vote on my opinion based on 5 minutes on the news

i dont even know the guys name hehe i am the first to admit that i dont know the first thing about what goes on over there...but at the time when i replied there was nothing going on over here (forum was almost dead)...so i joined in the thread, more so to be active on the forum when it was needed then to give some great insight into american polotics... i dont know or care as much as you guys who leave there

To me its a passing comment of what the guy "appears" like after seeing him on tv for 5 minutes.. to you it should be more serious then that ...then you can pretend like whomever you vote for is going to listen to you like we all do at every election

in anycase u guys are in a good spot...no matter who becomes the next president...its a step up...so u cant go wrong

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 13:12:09

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Hey Al

What sort of consulting? I always wanted to move there. My company has some projects there but it's mostly pipeline I think. How is Fairbanks in terms of jobs? And is the long dusk (winter) period really a problem?

Thanks
Bogdan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 13:28:21

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: America (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

Ron, I'm not fond of politicians either, but there can be significant differences between individual candidates and like it or not politics and politicians will be a necessary evil until someone comes up with a better way of doing things.

Pgh,
IMO a lot of top politicians have no more intelligence than you or I or anyone else on this Forum.
That's why folk like Ronald Regan can be President.
You are surrounded by experts and advisors on all kinds of things...it's your job to make a choice...
A good politician is a lucky politician.

("Events dear boy.")

Tony B here bailed out at the right moment and left dour old Gordon to carry the can.

That's not judgement...that's luck.

Just like the "expert" Bankers who get $1,000,000 bonuses for basically doing with our money what tourists do in Las Vegas.
A "Financial Expert" is just a lucky guy with his ear to the ground.

How many "Financial Experts" withdrew all their money from the stockmarket before the collapse?

All these experts seem to do is explain why it happened and why it was completely obvious after the event.

Today a number of hedge funds went belly-up, gambling that VW share price would drop....but it rose incredibly due to being bought by Porsche.

They lost billions of pounds of their investors money.
The investors no doubt trusted them because they were "experts" at the top of their game and didn't mind them paying themselves the odd mil here and there.

Truth is, they had just been lucky until now.

Luck is the big factor in a lot of major world events IMO.

Astrologists write a heap of rubbish, guesswork..
But if one of them gets some sort of prediction right, then they're on the news like some sort of "seer".

Nobody bothers about the 3,995 times it was totally wrong.

Anyway, enough rambling,
cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 13:35:21

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: America (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ofcourse not why should they...

This is about more than who will be president--it's about political ideology and ultimately the policies that affect everyone's way of life. Because of the financial collapse in the USA Japan's stock market has returned to its 1982 level, Norway is out $800 million USD (invested in Leyman Brothers) that was supposed to pay pensions to retirees, Iceland's currency collapsed, 6,000 auto dealerships are expected to close, the world auto industry is expected to collapse... between $12 trillion to $20 trillion USD has disappeared in the span of a month. These are only a few of the consequences of the policies of the Democratic leadership.

This economic crisis has yet to settle in and is still evolving. Remember that after the stock market collapse of 1929 the market didn't bottom out until July of 1932--it was at that point that it had lost 91% of its value.

When I read naive comments made by people in this and other threads about how great Obama is I really want people to be know who Obama is allied with and the danger involved in inadvertently promoting their destructive economic policies.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 13:37:46

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

When I read naive comments made by people in this and other threads about how great Obama is I really want people to be know who Obama is allied with and the danger involved in inadvertently promoting their destructive economic policies.

is that the young black guy

? but he seemed so nice on tv...

Ok you have convinced me ..i wont vote for him then or promote him any longher in case any Americans look to me to make up theyr minds about who they are going to vote for

please dont be offended by my passing comments

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 13:43:25

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: America (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

These are only a few of the consequences of the policies of the Democratic leadership.

Yeah...under George Bush.
Maybe he should have had more control since his party were in office?

Don't worry Pgh...I'm hurtin' too..

My modest pension I was looking forward to is now half of what it was six months ago!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 13:45:01

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: America (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

Pgh,
IMO a lot of top politicians have no more intelligence than you or I or anyone else on this Forum.
That's why folk like Ronald Regan can be President.
You are surrounded by experts and advisors on all kinds of things...it's your job to make a choice...
A good politician is a lucky politician.

("Events dear boy.")

Tony B here bailed out at the right moment and left dour old Gordon to carry the can.

That's not judgement...that's luck.

Just like the "expert" Bankers who get $1,000,000 bonuses for basically doing with our money what tourists do in Las Vegas.
A "Financial Expert" is just a lucky guy with his ear to the ground.

How many "Financial Experts" withdrew all their money from the stockmarket before the collapse?

All these experts seem to do is explain why it happened and why it was completely obvious after the event.

Today a number of hedge funds went belly-up, gambling that VW share price would drop....but it rose incredibly due to being bought by Porsche.

They lost billions of pounds of their investors money.
The investors no doubt trusted them because they were "experts" at the top of their game and didn't mind them paying themselves the odd mil here and there.

Truth is, they had just been lucky until now.

Luck is the big factor in a lot of major world events IMO.

Astrologists write a heap of rubbish, guesswork..
But if one of them gets some sort of prediction right, then they're on the news like some sort of "seer".

Nobody bothers about the 3,995 times it was totally wrong.

Anyway, enough rambling,
cheers,

Ron

Ron, that's all so very true.
It's a shame that you have to reach a certain age to see through all the humbug that you look up to when you're young.
Basically everybody is just fooling around, high or low. Only some people play with millions and others do it with a 100€ loan.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 13:55:50

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: America (in reply to Ron.M)

Hi Ron, I appreciate your wit and intelligence.

Markets crash when many of these fund managers pull all their assets out of the market at the same time. They are not predicting the crash, but making it happen. As for VW—people didn’t know where to put their money and VW seemed like a good bet. Unfortunately, now that the stock is trading at over 100 times its expected 2009 earnings any financial institution that shorted that stock will be wiped out when the margin is called.

It not intelligence that’s the issue, it’s the poor judgment involved in selling people big ticket items on credit while knowing that they can never make the payments. We live in a world economy and unlike the comments made by world leaders outside the USA when the crisis first hit here people everywhere in the world will be hurt by the Democratic Party’s poor judgment.

Sorry if all my comments about this have been taxing (get it) Foro members.

Thanks Flo, that’s really all I’m trying to do.

BTW Ron, the Democrats have had a majority in congress for years, Bush was therefore unable to oppose them successfully on many important issues. Bush’s ratings are low but Congress has far lower ratings—it’s in single digits.

It’s this enthusiasm about the supposed novelty of Obama that is influencing people when they should realize he is the same as the others who created this economic mess.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 13:58:46

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: America (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

These are only a few of the consequences of the policies of the Democratic leadership.

These are the long-term consequences of Thatcher's and Reagan's deregulation.
(And I'm not defending the Democratic leadership you mention, nor Obama- who I don't think is great or anything - and his plan to change taxes back to Reagan's levels.)

Anyway, enough of this - good luck to all our American friends, and back to music!

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 14:04:23

andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: America (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
I must say that in these days of a sort of feeling of "anti-Americanism" that prevails around the world,

I don't know that there's really an active 'anti-Americanism' around the world, but I think a lot of people just resent having to see and listen to such USA-centric news of the world. Sarah Palin's wardrobe, for god's sake?! How is that news to someone in another part of the world? Just having so many soundbites of Americana forced down people's throats is what turns people off the projected image of the 'greatest country in the world'. Even though most Americans can't name every state in their country and will never travel more than 50 miles (they refuse to go metric, too

) from their own home, the rest of the world are supposed to know where Fort Lauderdale is, what 'The Administration' is, and what happened at Pearl Harbour.
But the feeling is not against people but against a semi-literate president and a system that keeps them in ignorance of the outside world and tries to run the world in their name using a lot of catchy phrases like 'Operation Enduring Freedom'. This hurts average Americans as much as anyone - When DJ Shadow played in Australia he opened his set by saying "I'd like to apologize for that motherfu@ker George Bush..."... to rapturous applause

P.S. How can you tell when a politician is lying?
- You can see his lips moving!

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¡este arbol tiene duende, cabron!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 17:47:37

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

I don't think anti-Americanism has reached widespread proportions, but my personal experiences tell me that it's definitely very real in some parts. As an American I was despised in some places but in other places, I was treated like royalty - In Slovenia, I fondly remember three women sitting at my table buying me drinks; <sigh> life was grand. Then I come back to America where I'm lucky just to get eye contact from the females.

We are most definitely not the "greatest country in the world". As far as I'm concerned, there never was never has been and never will be any country that can make that claim with any semblance of objectivity. National pride is one thing which I have plenty of, but to paint all other countries with a subtle brush-stroke of inferiority just reeks of ignorance and stupidity and that's ultimately what leads to disastrous foreign relations.

I don't even know where I'm going with this post, I guess I just felt like posting something random.

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Don't look at me in that tone of voice.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 19:13:25

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: America (in reply to kovachian)

quote:

In Slovenia, I fondly remember three women sitting at my table buying me drinks; <sigh> life was grand.

This is where we should have the first Foro get together...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 20:27:12

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

This is where we should have the first Foro get together...

I am down for that

its getting harder and harder for men and women to get togheder or stay togheder...every relationship has the media to compete with, sex in the city, facebook etc lol one strike you out !

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2008 23:07:25

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: America (in reply to andresito)

quote:

But the feeling is not against people but against a semi-literate president and a system that keeps them in ignorance of the outside world

Thanks Andresito...I guess thats my feeling too. I guess when I think of a leader of a super power like the United States it would be nice if that leader were someone more wise and clever than say....any of us.

For me, leadership quality is not about someone I want to have play golf and have a beer with, but more about having someone who knows domestic politics, world history, what the capitol of France is, maybe some economics and dare I say it...Diplomacy!

When one considers the sorts of minds that came together to write what I believe to be one of the greatest pieces of altruistic legislation...The American Constitution...wouldn't it be nice to get some of that thinking back again in our future leaders?

quote:

"a little socialism is a good thing". One can say that only if he never experienced it.

Bogden- I cant even pretend to know what that means. I enjoy living in Socialist Spain...we have free health care if you are sick, we have free education for every child..and people can peaceably demonstrate in the city centres every sunday morning without the army intervening. (actually its not free, we all pay for it from our Social security payments). Yet despite this we do not live in a communist state and there is still room for people to make a living in a capitalist society. Its an idea of capitalism with some social responsability. If you are lucky enough to to live in a society that allows you to make lots of money...why not give some of it back to social infrastructure.

Secondly "stealing from the rich to give to the poor" is not to my mind about the middle classes supporting the lower classes. It's about the MEGA rich...guys who owned banks that went bust and escaped with nearly 500 million dollars...its those guys that perhaps could afford to give something back to the society that permits them to live like kings.

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Follow my blog http://pimientito.wordpress.com/

"Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 0:06:04

Matic

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: America (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

In Slovenia, I fondly remember three women sitting at my table buying me drinks; <sigh> life was grand.

Oh, I'll be in Slovenia next summer!

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vengo de los san migueles
si no me caso este año que yo
me caso el año que viene

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 0:32:39

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: America (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

Hi Pgh,
OK, I appreciate what you're saying.
The "Financial Experts" I was referring to were the "Personal Finance Gurus" who appear on TV and write newspaper columns to advise thicko-joes like me.

One thing for sure is I bet within 5 years or so, house prices here in the UK will be going through the roof again since demand certainly hasn't dried up and nobody is building houses anymore.
New regulations will be in force and the banks and financial institutions will devise new ways of getting round them.

The trouble with history is that the consequences of different events, choices or judgement calls can never be verified, only speculated upon.

In a parallel universe, JFK was never assasinated, but went on to being drummed out of office in disgrace after being caught with his pants down in some hotel bedroom with two Hollywood starlets.

Jimi Hendrix never died in London, but ran out of ideas and ended up a dinosaur from the 60's and a bit of a joke novelty act.

Paco de Lucia got signed up with Real Madrid at 16 and became an international soccer player and kept the guitar as a hobby only.

All we can say is that stuff happens and life goes on and we'll continue stumbling from one crisis to the next as usual. (SNAFU)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 2:15:49

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: America (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

I enjoy living in Socialist Spain...we have free health care if you are sick, we have free education for every child..and people can peaceably demonstrate in the city centres every sunday morning without the army intervening

Yeah we had that in USSR and today our hospitals look like stables and schools have no funds. And all children are trying to get to US to study.

As far as giving, there is nothing wrong with giving to those who need, but that has to be done out of free will and not mundated by some idiot in the government.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 4:59:57

DOKI

Posts: 2
Joined: Sep. 26 2008

RE: America (in reply to Ron.M)

HELLO, first time in the pile and enjoy all of your thoughts. want to say SP is the best news I had last august. I wish her and her running mate a victory!
As an american living in europe I still have many wonderful feelings of her.
AND, I am afraid the nice america I knew is about to be devoured.
now a update:::::received a flamenco guitar yesterday in the post?
she is absolutely beautiful and speaks very good spanish..I'm going
to have trouble with that. :) what a fabulous creature and made by your
own ANDERSTIEN. THANKS ANDERS,,, "ANDERS FOR PRESIDENT!"
HAVE A GOOD ONE. DOKI

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 5:13:59

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

Yeah we had that in USSR and today our hospitals look like stables and schools have no funds. And all children are trying to get to US to study.

Very true, and also very sad....but this does highlight the major difference between socialism in a communist state and socialism in a capitalist democracy.
It is possible to both fund socialist national programs and allow people to vote and earn independantly.

This very large difference in socialism seems to have been ignored and generally labelled under "communism" by certain current western definitions.

quote:

As far as giving, there is nothing wrong with giving to those who need, but that has to be done out of free will and not mundated by some idiot in the government.

Well noone is ever going to agree to pay more taxes. I think that if tax paying was as optional as charity giving...and the funding of education and public health depended on the generosity of the average "Six Pack Joe", we would quickly end up in the third world! Who decides who is needy and who is not. Some people are sick, some are simply not as clever as others, some never had the opportunity to study, and some are simply lazy.
I am not suggesting that middle class democrats or republicans foot these bills. It is the vast corporations with economies larger than entire countries...petrochemical companies, pharmacological companies, private banks etc. These guys lobby legislation to avoid payment of taxes at the expense of the general public and make billions in the process. Several of the top world economies are US based corporations....they could socially support the society that allows them freedom to be so wealthy.....thats what I mean by social capitalism.

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Follow my blog http://pimientito.wordpress.com/

"Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 5:37:01

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

Yeah we had that in USSR and today our hospitals look like stables and schools have no funds. And all children are trying to get to US to study.

with all the respect thats not because of socialism...irronicaly thats because of deomocracy that now former Ussr enjoys...noone cares about these things anymore, everyone wants to be an millionare, entrepreneur busines owner over night.. democracy takes time..when u come from a communist background...u have to learn how to be free and how to use the freedom..right now everyone is just looking after theyr own imediate interests...eventualy in a natural time they will stop and start thinking about those around them also...

its like a girl who has been overprotected and restricted and keped in the house way too long by her parents...the second she gets out...i guarantee you she parties way way worst then the girl that was allowed to use her own judgement

i know communism is not great, i come from a former communist country but just for argument sake..free schools and free healthcare dosent sound all that bad
i am with the others a litlle socialism is not that bad..

Have you seen the Michael More documentry about the Us health system ? and those Americans that went to Cuba a comunist, 3rd world country where they got in a day ...and for 20 bucs the same medical threatment that they have been trying to get for years and tousands of dollars in the US ?

A woman started crying when she purchased the exact same medicine for $4 that she had been paying away all her pension at $250 for the exct same thing in the Us (now i wouldnt recommend leaving in Cuba over Us lol but man if they can do it in Cuba ...3rd world , poor country ...why not in US ?) richest country on earth..

id rather have a litlle socialism then every man for himself , survival of the fittest, screw everyone elses family as long as mine is ok and screw those that are sick or old or weak and cant look after themselfs....my family is eating

Pimientito is right again...people are not born equaly, some have a better learning capacity, some dont get oportunities..capitalism for all its greatness and freedom as it is now is totaly leaving those people behind..

Its like saying its a equal race, may the best man win...but some's starting line is a few hundred metters back.

In romania as a child i was always amazed to see on tv...Usa the greatest and richest country in the world, who comes to the aid of all the world with food and stuff has tousands of homless people living under bridges in theyr own country.....i never ever understood that could be..

a government has a duty to its own people ...all of them not just the rich, the smart, the strong and the lucky ones...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 6:19:28

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Wow, where do I start?

In 70s and 80s I was in USSR and it was before the collapse. Hospitals were stables and schools were underfunded. Nurses and doctors didn't care - equal pay regardless of performance. So no it's not just now because of new democracy. Someone said recently: free healthcare is a great idea until you get sick.

USA is a country of opportunities. Unless a person is physically or mentally handicapped opportunities are a plenty. All that US asks for is work. Laziness is a different thing. For those who are handicapped there is plenty of care here. In fact in socialist USSR we didn't have ramps for wheelchairs and buses to accommodate those who were not mobile. Go figure, socialist state.

Blaming everything on corporations is absurd. No one ever thinks that these corporations employ and thus feed and give opportunities to tens of thousands of people and more in some cases. Exxon alone employs over 100,000, my brother in law included. Because of them my sister in law could have a baby in a wonderful hospital for 25$. No exaggerations. Wouldn't happen in USSR where everyone was equal. Surely there are overpaid execs but that is a minor problem compared to scores of deadbeats on welfare in this country.

Taxes are mandatory, and they will always be there, what gets me is richer pay more is if there were to be punished for their success. Deadbeats pay nothing because of low or no income. This is wealth redistribution - communist idea. Flat tax is the only just thing to do but that would be too "just" for people who would rather collect welfare and unemployment. And what's even worse is that someone is making a choice for me, and saying I should help others. That should be between man and God, not between man and state. One of the greatest truths in the world is "No one owes you anything" and it seams like democrats don't get it.

Oh and on a funny note, did you know that in US democrats donate less to charity per capita than republicans? Interesting stats, surfaced recently in some publications.

Inequality is a natural state, we are born equal in the eyes of god not in terms of our abilities and opportunities. That's normal. Not everyone will be Einstein and not everyone will be Warren Buffet and that's the beuty of things. Everyone has the path and it's the entitlement that pisses me off most.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 7:20:28

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

All that US asks for is work

yeah i have seen a 80 year old guy who had been working all his life.. retired and had to go back to work..minimum wage...packing boxes, the guy could hardly walk to be able to pay for his medicine for injuries he sustained over a lifetime of working and old age funny enough

communism is not great...but somewhere along the freedoom trail of capitalism something else also went missing..if you got enough money u can buy off the right to charge whatever you feel like for medicine...and they have to pay for it cause its not a luxury....its medicine, its not a choice they have to have it...a sales person dream situation

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 7:35:15

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: America (in reply to Florian)

I do agree with the fact that US has a healthcare problem. Prices are inflated and partial reason for that is malpractice lawsuits and insurance premiums. But I do not believe free healthcare is a solution. There is nothing free in the world. One way or another we are paying for it (taxes our out of pocket) and I would rather pay for a good MRI out of pocket or with my insurance than have my tax dollars pocketed by hospital managers or politicians and having to use an xray machine from 1920s.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 7:46:57

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

thank you.. to my surrprise i enjoyed this conversation ..considering u come from another place its interesting to me to hear your point of views

Its funny to see that from someone that lived in a communist country u embraced capitalism more then some of the people leaving there all they'r lifes lol

theres nothing wrong with capitalism compared to any other governments imo...none of the systems are perfect...but if it was up to me to design one wich i think would be the closest to beeing fair and include everyone and give everyone a true equal chance and dosent leave anyone behind i would draw something between capitalism and communism...something somewhere in the midlle, they both have some great ideals one or the other could learn from (and even that might and probably will fail..as long as humans are involved no governmet will ever be 100 fair

, both of the parties that invented this governments had noble ideas and visions..its the interpretation of it by ambitious people to serve own needs that always screws it up...just like religion)...but thats just my 5 cents ..

I guess you are also rebeling against what u must have been trough and just the mention of the word socialism sends you up the walls lol and considering what u must have been trough i guess its understandable

whatever happens goodluck for the future

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 7:53:54

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Ron, I knew what you meant. The comment about fund managers pulling their money in anticipation of a crash had to do with comments made by Jim Cramer (one of the gurus you mentioned who helps people chose individual stocks on his daily TV show). He made a statement about predicting the market crash in 1987 a few weeks ago. Analysts have concluded that his stock picks consistently underperform compared to the various stock markets.

There are some misconceptions people have about healthcare and homelessness in the US. Many homeless people have a mental illness and rather than live in residential treatment facilities or assisted living they end up on the street instead. It’s partly their choice—their judgment is poor and affects the decision making process. The “deinstutionalization” of the mentally ill has added to the problem of chronic homelessness. Some unfortunate people end up on the street for a period of time but they are not there forever. Also, many homeless people are drug addicts or kids who ran away from home. Many of these people have chosen to withdraw from society but they just don’t have the money to afford to live in better circumstances (although drug addicts can always find ways to support extremely expensive drug habits).

In the US treatment for mental illness is free through state governments—every aspect of treatment is covered, no co-pays, nothing. This includes medication, various forms of therapy, hospital stays, housing (including heat, electricity), food, and free college education for those with a mental illness that are capable of succeeding in school. Free treatment is also available for people who have contracted STD’s and any other illness that can lead to an epidemic or social crisis. Because these programs are administered and integrated into the private sector heath system there are fewer problems (worker apathy, low quality standards, etc.) related to state run systems than would occur if these systems were entirely socialized.

As for other health care issues many people are entitled to free treatment (the poor are “judgment proof” so it is pointless to sue them). The people who are in the greatest jeopardy of financial loss are those who have accumulated wealth and have health problems. If they max out their policy they owe the difference between what costs are covered and those that are not. In Western PA anyone who has little accumulated wealth and makes less than $38,000 USD per year can have their bills waived by some if not all hospital systems. The health care horror stories you hear about happen to people who either have money and no health insurance or who have money and max out their health insurance or lose their jobs and insurance due to serious illness. These situations happen often enough, but people aren’t aware of how much of a safety net is available to people in the US.

The reality here is very different than the sound bites people have heard in the media.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2008 8:37:05

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: America (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

have you seen this ? the director is american and every sick person in the movie is american..id love to get your opinion on it..u can find lots of scenes from it on youtube...

heres some http://au.youtube.com/results?search_query=michael+moore+sicko&search_type=