Good Improvising scales

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Reinhardt

Posts: 58
Joined: Sep. 10 2008

Good Improvising scales

Hi all,

Can you guys please post a few good scale to improvise on?

Thx in advance

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2008 21:59:21

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to Reinhardt)

Improvising lead lines over a chord progresion?

what are the chords?

What scales are you currently using/or familiar with?

If you know the major scale, then you already know tons of scales.

If you're talking about playing changes, dont think "linear scales".
Think "connect the dots, with chord tones" Its all about tonal centers.
The 3rd and dominant 7th of the chord.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 12 2008 23:49:23

Reinhardt

Posts: 58
Joined: Sep. 10 2008

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to ToddK)

Any chords really, Im currently learning spanish gypsie scales that i got from www.all-guitar-chords.com thats closest to flamenco i can get. Any tips and scales to help me improvise the quickest will be much appreciated,

Thx in advance

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 2:24:52

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to Reinhardt)

get 47 picados book by jorge berges. great reference for flamenco scales. either that or manuel grandos tecnica de la guitarra flamenca. lots of scales and exercises for the left hand.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 2:31:49

Munin

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to Reinhardt)

The Granados book is indeed great. Most valuable all-round resource of exercises I've ever bought.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 3:15:26

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to Reinhardt)

OK, I don't know very much. In terms of improvisation, I think that applies mainly to rumbas. Other palos, I get the impression you mix and match various falsetas you already know in pleasing ways.

So how about this one for a rumba. Use the scale Paco uses in Entre Dos Aguas b,c,d,e,f#,g,a (i.e. the G major scale) and improvise over a two chord vamp Am7 and Bm7. The trick is landing on the chord notes in a melodic fashion over each chord.

Add in the full chord progression Am7, Bm7, Am7 and B7. On the B7 you have to change scale, don't ask me which one, I don't know. Just land on the D# and take a break.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 10:39:57

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

Improvising lead lines over a chord progresion?

what are the chords?

What scales are you currently using/or familiar with?

If you know the major scale, then you already know tons of scales.

If you're talking about playing changes, dont think "linear scales".
Think "connect the dots, with chord tones" Its all about tonal centers.
The 3rd and dominant 7th of the chord.

I agree with Todd about this . Learning scale finger patterns is a DEAD END if someone wants to really learn to improvise. 'Connecting the dots between chord tones' is a great way to think of scales.

Jamie Aebesold the great Jazz educator has lots of great material breaking down and introducing improvising. It can be applied to flamenco and most easily to Rhumba and such like where there is a lot of cycle of fourths movement.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 10:58:18

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to Reinhardt)

quote:

Jamie Aebesold the great Jazz educator has lots of great material breaking down and introducing improvising.

Here's a link to Jamie Aebersold's website.

http://www.aebersold.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc

He has a lot of products. My favorite two and the more basic of his offerings are:

"The II-V7-I Progression"
"Jazz and Rock: NOTHIN' BUT BLUES"

These two albums both consist of play-along music tracks.

As for scales you should learn the modes generated by the major scale and the chords that go with them as well as the whole tone scale, harmonic and melodic minor scales and diminished scale. The diminished arpeggio and diminished tri-tones are worth knowing, too. Learn some basic chord progressions used in jazz and the basics of applying the scales appropriate to them.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 12:20:48

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to cathulu)

Just thinking a bit more, and learning, the example I gave I think is exactly what Todd was saying. You are using a mode of the G major scale.

In Entre Dos Aguas Paco is landing on the 3rds a lot - the C for Am7, D for Bm7 and the D# for B7. There ya go.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 13:27:25

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to cathulu)

quote:

In Entre Dos Aguas Paco is landing on the 3rds a lot - the C for Am7, D for Bm7 and the D# for B7. There ya go.

Yep!
Take for instance the Solea falseta we've been talking about that
i uploaded.
Its virtually a lesson in chord tone connecting.

He starts off over the E chord with the dominant 7th note "D" to start
the melody.
Then when he hits the F bass, he uses the root (F) leading chromatically to
the dominant 7th (Eflat) for the melody. (connecting the dots using chord tones!hello!

)
When he hits the G bass, he uses the major 3rd, then 2 notes later the dominant 7th.
Then when he hits that sneaky C bass, he hits the major 3rd, which btw is
just one half step away from that dominant 7th note of G. (classic voice leading)

Then he goes to F finally, uses the B note for the melody, which is the
tritone (flat 5/sharp 11)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 14:50:26

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to ToddK)

Play this over an F chord

------------------------------------------------------3--5--7-----------------------------------
--------------------------------------------3--4--6---------------------------------------------
----------------------------------2--4--5-------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------1--3--5------------------------------------------------------------------
------------2--3--5-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-1--3--5----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is Lydian Dominant.

Take any major or dominant chord, and play a melodic minor scale from
the fifth degree of that chord.

So in this case , we have an F chord. The fifth is C. So we're playing C melodic
minor over an F chord.
This yeilds the dominant 7th and the flat 5/sharp 11 sound.

Here's another one.
For chords that are resolving down a 4th, like a 5-1 resolution or 6-2 resolution,
for instance E7 resolving to Amajor or A dominant.
Over the E7, you can play melodic minor, starting from a half step above the root (F melodic minor). This yeilds lots of altered tones.

-------------------------------------------------------8--10--12-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------------8--9--11---------------------------------------------------
----------------------------7--8--10----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------6--8--10----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---7--8--10-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you hit the A chord, you want to land on C#, A , or G.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 15:05:45

takitaka

Posts: 55
Joined: Apr. 13 2008

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to ToddK)

Hi Todd, i agree with everything you said except the B is played over the C bass and then he lands on A with the F bass ! cheers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 15:23:50

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to takitaka)

quote:

Hi Todd, i agree with everything you said except the B is played over the C bass and then he lands on A with the F bass

Nope, look at my tab, and the video.

Over the C bass, he plays E = the 3rd. And on the F he lands on B.

Dont make me have to make another video!!

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 15:48:09

takitaka

Posts: 55
Joined: Apr. 13 2008

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to ToddK)

nope ,i'm talking about the black and white video on utube he lands right on the beat with F and A !!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 15:58:55

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to takitaka)

quote:

nope ,i'm talking about the black and white video on utube he lands right on the beat with F and A !!!

That's not the performance i transcribed.

In the black and white one, he offsets the F bass by a 16th.

The "A" note fits right in to the theory anyway, as it is the major 3rd of F.

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 16:15:15

takitaka

Posts: 55
Joined: Apr. 13 2008

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to ToddK)

Hi, which performance did you transcribe i'm only familiar with the live utube version would love to hear the version you tabbed ,any chance? cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 16:20:17

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to takitaka)

quote:

Hi, which performance did you transcribe i'm only familiar with the live utube version would love to hear the version you tabbed ,any chance? cheers

He does that falseta in virtually every Solea he plays, but he improvises
tiny changes each time.
There are even a few where he totally fluffs the C to F part completely.
It never really puts you off, cause you're too busy picking up your jaw
off of the floor when he does the picado run the follows that falsetta.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 16:22:48

takitaka

Posts: 55
Joined: Apr. 13 2008

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to ToddK)

so where can i hear a studio version ?

he sure gets it right on the version i'm talking about

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 16:27:45

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to takitaka)

quote:

so where can i hear a studio version

Buy the CD. i dont know which one has that solea on it.

Good luck!

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 17:14:05

Reinhardt

Posts: 58
Joined: Sep. 10 2008

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to Reinhardt)

Thx alot for all the replies and advice guys, really appreciate it :-)

I just want to do some scales and mix it up with a few basic barre chords and start improvising from their. . .

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 22:24:40

takitaka

Posts: 55
Joined: Apr. 13 2008

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to ToddK)

thanks for the reply

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 13 2008 23:59:39

Ramirez

Posts: 243
Joined: Apr. 16 2005

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to takitaka) 1 votes

A recorded version of that falseta appears on the opening solea of Paco's first album - La fabuloso Guitarra de Paco de Lucia.

The solea is called Gitanos Trianeros (one of my favourites!)

I think he uses the falseta in other soleas such as on the live recording on "en vivio desde el teatro real".

Hope that helps...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2008 1:30:17

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to takitaka)

quote:

thanks for the reply

Thanks for the sarcasm. It was yummy.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2008 3:08:07

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

quote:

thanks for the reply

Thanks for the sarcasm. It was yummy.

You have strange tastes Todd. I don't know think many of us share them.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2008 3:54:25

takitaka

Posts: 55
Joined: Apr. 13 2008

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to Ramirez)

thanks for the reply

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2008 5:47:33

Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to takitaka)

Takitaka, you can find a recorded version of it on La Fabulosa Guitarra.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2008 10:57:40

takitaka

Posts: 55
Joined: Apr. 13 2008

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to Rain)

Ok thanks for the info . Just listened to that version and it too has the Fand the A landing right on the beat strange that isn't it !

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2008 14:28:09

Reinhardt

Posts: 58
Joined: Sep. 10 2008

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to takitaka)

Lol you guys were going on about this bass note landing for more than 20 posts

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 14 2008 21:42:53

enurbf03

Posts: 26
Joined: Sep. 3 2008
From: petticoat junction

RE: Good Improvising scales (in reply to takitaka)

quote:

Ok thanks for the info . Just listened to that version and it too has the Fand the A landing right on the beat strange that isn't it !

The A actually lands with the F bass on the 16th after the onbeat. Similar to the Cbass and E note prior. But these are such small details, it really doesnt matter. The idea actually is to variate falsetas anyway. Most really good players rarely play anything totally verbatum. Its the same way in american jazz. Many jazz players couldnt repeat a solo verbatum even if you put a gun to their head.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 15 2008 0:55:48