Pegs affecting sound

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chapman_g

Posts: 227
Joined: Apr. 11 2007

Pegs affecting sound

I did a search and got some info. But I have 2 questions. I have 4 blancas by Salvador Castillo and they all sound absolutely great. I can't describe the difference very well but the 2 with pegs sound a little nicer. Would the same guitar with pegs sound different than the same guitar with machines? Second question. The ones with pegs seem to stay closer to concert pitch, the tuning does not move as much when I put the guitar down and come back to it next morning. Can the luthiers shed any light as to whether pegs hold the tuning in place any better than machines?

Thanks,

Michael

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 13 2008 9:09:10

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Pegs affecting sound (in reply to chapman_g)

quote:

I have 4 blancas by Salvador Castillo and they all sound absolutely great. I can't describe the difference very well but the 2 with pegs sound a little nicer.

In my documentary "El Guitarrero" Anders Eliasson talks about mass. The more mass in the headstock i.e. machine tuners, the more sustain. Pegs give a drier sound. So, to paraphrase Anders, your peghead guitars with machine tuners would give more sustain.

I cannot answer your second question except to speculate that pegs don't seem slip too easily if correctly used. They are not geared as much (which otherwise might exert levered force to detune the string in reverse - there are also more contact surfaces, wheels and gears that are less accurate etc.) and organically, may be less susceptible to changes in temperature, but that would be a guess.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 13 2008 9:19:03

chapman_g

Posts: 227
Joined: Apr. 11 2007

RE: Pegs affecting sound (in reply to chapman_g)

Simon,
Thanks for the comments and the amazing resource that is this site. And I did not realize that more sustain might go with machine heads. The thing is when I play and have someone else play and listen to the guitars they seem extremely similar in terms of sustain, percussiveness, but the tone of the both pegheads are just a little more pleasing. I cannot say that there is a noticeable difference in terms of brighter or darker or rounder but the pegheads definitely have a slightly more pleasing sound. Maybe I can say that eventhough they are equally as bright and percussive the machine heads are a little more metallic sounding. It definitely does not seem like more sustain on the machines is the difference. But as we know that maker can compensate for all those differences during the making process.

Michael

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 14 2008 5:15:37

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Pegs affecting sound (in reply to chapman_g)

so would it be safe to say that for negras, it'd be better to get machine heads since more sustain is what is being sought after?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 14 2008 10:17:24

chapman_g

Posts: 227
Joined: Apr. 11 2007

RE: Pegs affecting sound (in reply to at_leo_87)

I still don't think that there is more sustain with machines versus pegheads on these particular Salvador Castillo Blancas. In this case I think the pegheads just have more balls; the pegheads are more vibrant. Again it is really not a big difference from his machine heads which are great, but it is a discernible difference.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2008 4:42:55

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Pegs affecting sound (in reply to chapman_g)

more balls... lol. good way to describe it.

when i first saw a peghead, i thought, "wow, only a crazy traditionalist would get this."

but it quickly grew on me. i think my next guitar will be a peghead though i'm still a bit wary of how easy they are to use despite what i've read.

they actually look pretty "hip" imo.

any peghead fans here want to confirm to me once and for all if they're easy to use? i'm slightly traumatized from owning a violin...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2008 4:53:23

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: Pegs affecting sound (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

any peghead fans here want to confirm to me once and for all if they're easy to use? i'm slightly traumatized from owning a violin...

I have a negra from Aaron Green and the peg heads are as easy to use as the machine heads I have on my other guitar. I guess with pegheads it depends a lot on the luthier. The peg heads on flamenco guitar are thinner in diameter than the violin ones which make them easier to operate.

When you need to change strings pegheads are so much more fun than machine heads, you change strings instantly with pegheads and the strings seem to get into tune faster than with machine heads.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 17 2008 6:44:11

AntonioM

Posts: 32
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
From: Linares

RE: Pegs affecting sound (in reply to chapman_g)

I have owned about 27 guitars in the last 54 years. Only one had machines. The rest had pegs. Pegs look better and make the head lighter. They are easier to use when changing strings. They seem to hold the pitch better and have less give than machines. Sabicas said wood to wood sounded better than wood to plastic (machine roller). I think you would not notice a difference in sound if you have the cejilla in place since the nut position is replaced by the cejilla. Playing a guitar with machines just does not feel right to me. I must have those magnificent pegs up there.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2008 21:12:26

Francisco

Posts: 879
Joined: Jun. 13 2005
From: SW USA

RE: Pegs affecting sound (in reply to chapman_g)

I have never tuned a guitar w/ pegs. How does it work exactly? I know it's friction that holds the pegs in place, and the pegs are tapered so that the peg has to be 'pulled free' to allow it to turn? Then, pushed back towards the thick end of the peg to reintroduce the friction?

I was considering pegs on my next guitar purchase, but to be honest, I have no experience with them.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2008 22:36:58

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pegs affecting sound (in reply to chapman_g)

Francisco.

Your question is one of the good ones. very basic but also very important, because facts are that very few know how to use pegs.

What you describe is right but only on a poorly fitted peg. One which is or totally stuck or totally loose. They are horrible.

A good fitted peg with the right amount of lubricant. The in - out can be almost eliminated. Its hardly nescessary to do other things than turn.
Ok, this sounds like unreal and it often is. Reality is that after not having played the guitar for a while, the pegs stick. So daily routine is to take them slightly out before playing, turning a bit back and forth and tuning. When you´ve done that, most of your playing session, you should be able to just turn. Read I said most of your playing session..... nothing is perfect. Not even the ost wonderfully fitted peg.

Its important that the pegs are thin. Then the gearing is lower when turning and there´s less tendency to sticking.

I like pegs a lot. I like the feel of the guitar. And yes, there is a difference.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2008 23:12:33

AntonioM

Posts: 32
Joined: Apr. 15 2008
From: Linares

RE: Pegs affecting sound (in reply to chapman_g)

If your guitar is well made, and not a cheap one, the pegs should work fine. I played violin and used pegs for years on that instrument as well. It was easy for me to get used to using them on the guitar. A good quality guitar with pegs is easy to tune. A cheap guitar with pegs can be a nightmare. My 1966 Oribe with its magnificently polished ebony pegs tune easily, as does my Bushman blanca. To keep them working smoothly, I sometimes apply graphite (lead) off a pencil. Just rub the lead from the pencil around the area of the peg that makes contact with the hole. ALso, chalk works, as does a very very very small amount of violin peg lube. A guitar with machine heads just does not look or feel flamenco to me anymore. I recently taught a flamenco master class at a local university to a group of classical guitar players. They loved the pegs on my guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 4 2008 6:30:14