Flamenco Piano (real flamenco)

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XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

Flamenco Piano (real flamenco)

I found this at Toddks forum. checkout the Paco falsetas at 2:20 and 2:40.
Also checkout other piano buleria videos, they are all good!

Here is one with really cool breaks:

WOW!

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2008 3:07:29

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

I like flamenco piano a lot. I got a Diego Amador CD in past and he also plays in this style. They copy much the strokes which the guitar does, so it allways sounds a bit like they transposed guitar-compositions for the piano, but if you want to retranspose to guitar you see its not that easy. ^^

Great music anyway.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2008 6:22:34

rpguitar

Posts: 27
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: New Jersey, USA

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

Amazingly, with the piano being a more traditional timbre in jazz than nylon guitar, this sounds VERY much like jazz... And very, very cool! Thanks for sharing this.

Roger

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'08 Eliasson hybrid blanca, '07 Hmnos Sanchis Lopez Bulerias negra, '72 Conde blanca

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2008 6:37:31

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to rpguitar)

Hm Roger, i dont know much about Jazz. But i was positively surprised that this piano player didnt try to change the music to his playing (like many musicians sadly do with flamenco), but his playing to the music. If you hear close enough - as Doit pointed out - its almost note for note the same thing a guitar player would play. Especially Rythmically. Im not sure, but i never have heard something like that in Jazz.

@Doit: if you know more players like this, please let me know! I just discovered this style and have to listen to as many people as possible.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2008 7:02:29

Güiro

Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 22 2008
From: Colorado

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

I think there is a guy called Dorantes who also plays flamenco piano.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2008 7:14:26

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

What??? He's supposed to be cradling the piano in his lap! This ain't true flamenco!!!

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Don't look at me in that tone of voice.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2008 7:19:49

rpguitar

Posts: 27
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: New Jersey, USA

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

Im not sure, but i never have heard something like that in Jazz.

Right, no doubt - I really mean the chord voicings. The dissonant flatted ninths and such sound totally different on a piano, and bring jazz comping to mind.

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'08 Eliasson hybrid blanca, '07 Hmnos Sanchis Lopez Bulerias negra, '72 Conde blanca

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2008 19:37:38

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

@Doit: if you know more players like this, please let me know! I just discovered this style and have to listen to as many people as possible.

Hey Deniz,

Do a google for Pablo Ruben Maldonado. We recorded his first album called "Almanjayar' for him a few years back which should be available any day now on our andalamusica cdbaby page. You can find him on youtube and he also has a myspace page where you can listen to his music. He has won various awards for his playing and composing. One critic said he made the piano sound like a guitar with 300 strings ( or however many strings a piano has !!! ). He was also a guest player on the Taller de Compás album, the track he recorded 'Jam de Pablo', was improvised in the studio, lasts 8 minutes and I think it's astounding. You can hear it on our myspace page. www.myspace.com/andalamusica

Hope you enjoy, tell me what you think. We're recording his second album at the moment and I'm promoting him, trying to get him gigs at jazz or flamenco festivals for next year. So if anyone knows of anything in their town let me know.

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2008 1:45:44

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

Now that i finally listen to a non guitar music i come to think...
on guitar the notes are often "cut" short before they can ring out. I dont mean sustain. I mean the guitar is a more staccato kind of instrument. To my ear, even great guitarrists... they cant play as legato as a violin or piano player. Left hand is one issue, another one is coordination of left and right hand.

Think of an example: in solea there is this figure Am-G-F-E with barred chords arpegiated. Lets say pa (together) mipima and then change the chord. The last a stroke is always a hear cutted off. This is just a basic example where I have some problems. But basically the same thing goes for other more complex figures, where even the best players dont sound as legato as it should be IMO.

And another thing is string noise. Often the guitar sounds like this: *chkkk* - tone. When the player touches the string with the nail first. This also happens the best players.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 16 2008 2:06:00

Hugh1919

Posts: 2
Joined: Oct. 18 2013

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Kate)

Met him recently when he was in Toronto. Love his playing ...sounds very flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2013 1:03:39

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Hugh1919)

GOOD BUMP !!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2013 1:15:05

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

Real flamenco is not piano, nor guitar. It is cante and nowadays, more often than not, cante gitano.

This is called a Foro Flamenco, anybody can read it and easily form a facile and wrong impression of flamenco. Do we really want to foster pseudoflamenco? Posters who have some knowledge should also have some responsibility.

Last night, I had the pleasure to hear Remedios Reyes (hermana de Antonio) accompanied by my favourite tocaor Joselito de Pura (sobrino de Silverio Herídia), in the Peña de Juan Villar. The night was dedicated to Patricia Valdés ( wife of Antonio), so the whole family was present, as was Juan Villar and many of his family. She put the whole Peña de pie.

When a gitano or gitana sings to their family is when the word "duende" can be understood. THIS is real flamenco, let us not confuse concepts. por favor.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2013 15:29:00

Bliblablub

Posts: 60
Joined: Oct. 9 2013

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

I am pretty sure this is flamenco. Cante is flamenco too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2013 15:47:35

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

I recently found this album called Pianisimo Flamenco by Manolo Carrasco which has various Palos played on the Piano, though i have not given it a listen proper listen yet.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2013 16:12:41

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Real flamenco is not piano, nor guitar. It is cante and nowadays, more often than not, cante gitano.

I simply prefer flamenco be represented by whatever is well done. A good flamenco guitar solo or dance is better representation than BAD CANTE...for sure.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2013 17:38:17

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Real flamenco is not piano, nor guitar. It is cante and nowadays, more often than not, cante gitano.

I simply prefer flamenco be represented by whatever is well done. A good flamenco guitar solo or dance is better representation than BAD CANTE...for sure.

Amen

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2013 23:41:55

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

Amen

Yup, you hit the nail on the head there Mr Marlowe.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 19 2013 23:48:04

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

Yup, you hit the nail on the head there Mr Marlowe.

And so well in compas :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 20 2013 0:29:09

Morante

Posts: 2179
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Ricardo)

With great respect to Ricardo, who knows flamenco and whom I consider a friend, it seems to me that 90% of the members of this forum would benefit greatly from a 3 month visit to Jerez.

Morante

P.S. Last night we had a homenaje to Silverio Heredia, a great friend, a great cantaor and bailaor, who is being treated for cancer and came from hospital to be present. The high point was when Conchita (82 years old and de Los Gitanillos de Cádiz) made an impromptu appearance. Accompanied by Joselito de Pura and the cante of Remedios Reyes and the baile of Patricia Valdés, she danced a pincelita of bulerías which made a mockery of present day dance.

Apart from her the only other high points were the cante of Alonso Núnez (Rancapino Hijo) and Ángel Pastor.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 20 2013 15:21:56

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

it seems to me that 90% of the members of this forum would benefit greatly from a 3 month visit to Jerez.

You mean to say 10% of us would not ??? Because they already are/live there or because they are beyond hope?

quote:

P.S. Last night we had a homenaje to Silverio Heredia, a great friend, a great cantaor and bailaor, who is being treated for cancer and came from hospital to be present.

Sorry to hear about his condition. He was one of the guest teachers/performers who visited my old school in Rotterdam during my study years to work with us on the art of accompanying. We had the honor to work with people like Silverio, Chaparro, dancer Raul (who died at a very young age), Diego Amador and many others.... indeed meaningful and very memorable moments.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 20 2013 22:46:59

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

quote:

P.S. Last night we had a homenaje to Silverio Heredia, a great friend, a great cantaor and bailaor, who is being treated for cancer and came from hospital to be present.

Sorry to hear about his condition. He was one of the guest teachers/performers who visited my old school in Rotterdam during my study years to work with us on the art of accompanying. We had the honor to work with people like Silverio, Chaparro, dancer Raul (who died at a very young age), Diego Amador and many others.... indeed meaningful and very memorable moments.

I also had the chance to play for him many many years ago. I like to think of him as the first real cantaor I got to play for alone.

I hope he gets better! My prayers for him and his family.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2013 5:03:04

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Morante)

quote:

90% of the members of this forum would benefit greatly from a 3 month visit to Jerez.

If you can you get someone to cover my job for three months, and someone to provide full board and lodging for me in Jerez for three months I could probably stretch to the plane ticket....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2013 12:29:20

kenjo138

Posts: 114
Joined: May 29 2011

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to mark indigo)

When I first went to Jerez, I was there for four months. I did not see any flamenco for the first three months. During the last month I was there, I went to a couple of tourist traps. You really have to know where to find it if you happen to be there when no feria is taking place.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2013 20:10:25

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

Alright guys, let's get to what really matters. Check out this girl, Ariadna Castellanos.

I almost died at 4:40...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2013 23:47:56

FredGuitarraOle

Posts: 898
Joined: Dec. 6 2012
From: Lisboa, Portugal

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to FredGuitarraOle)

She is so f*cking hot...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2013 23:51:17

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

I can't get into flamenco piano, it just doesnt have that bite the guitar has

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2013 2:25:19

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to mark74)

quote:

it just doesnt have that bite the guitar has

I agree, piano sound is to polished it lacks roughness.
Perhaps its time someone designed a Flamenco piano!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2013 9:31:05

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Argaith)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Argaith

quote:

it just doesnt have that bite the guitar has

I agree, piano sound is to polished it lacks roughness.
Perhaps its time someone designed a Flamenco piano!

Wouldn't you disqualify the guitar in a similar way if it was only known being played by classical musicians? I can't exclude a special piano might be an option but i know the piano as we know it can sound totally different when touched by different hands. During the 2003 queen elisabeth competition the grand piano sounded dull and terrible with every single attendant. How could they offer an instrument like that to the competitors? Until Severin von Eckardstein entered the stage being the last competitor. Suddenly the very same instrument sounded crisp and clear with no trace of the total lack of sound it suffered before.
One could argue the flamenco guitar is different from a classical guitar as well, but over time players like Paco de Lucia initiated/favored a type of flamenco guitar that embraced the more lyrical possibilities of the classical guitar.... i believe Sanlucar ones played a classical Jose Ramirez guitar which didn't make him sound less flamenco (can't blame him since the best ones play and sound like a dream).

I believe flamenco can sound incredible on a piano when played by an artist that speaks the language of both the instrument and flamenco. All you need is someone who is able to translate the feeling of flamenco to that new paled of possibilities. Paco de Lucia already expressed his interest to play the piano in the 80ties. A piano is not a guitar and should find it's own way in expressing flamenco overtime. In the same way the guitar has developed it's position aside the human voice so can the piano.

Here are just a few of my favorite players, showing the possibilities of the instrument.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2013 14:26:01

Bliblablub

Posts: 60
Joined: Oct. 9 2013

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to Erik van Goch)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch
I believe flamenco can sound incredible on a piano when played by an artist skilled in both performing magic on a piano and speaking the language of flamenco.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2013 14:52:41

mark74

Posts: 690
Joined: Jan. 26 2011

RE: Flamenco Piano (real flamenco) (in reply to XXX)

Even when theyre playing phrygian scales it seems it loses some of its Moorish essence on the piano. It becomes more like a classical composer creating a study based on a Spanish dance than the actual Spanish dance.

After all the guitar evolved out of the Oud right there in the streets of Andalusia, while the piano was imported from northern Europe and imposed upon the people as a symbol of aristocratic Christian culture

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2013 18:55:56