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Zambra 

Hi Flamencos, I'm learning from a cd a version of Zambra and would like to find out more about this branch of Flamenco. I have a couple of other versions on cd, one being J. Martin's (Zambra-Tangos). I've asked several people about zambra and not learned any more then I already knew. Dancers I've spoken to know nothing of the dance.

Photog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2004 10:48:31
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Zambra (in reply to Guest

Originally the Zambra is a show and also the name of the place where the show is held and orginates in the Sacromonte caves of Granada. Previously believed to be a Moorish fiesta but now considered part of a Gypsy wedding festival. It comprises of three dances, the alboreá, the cachucha and the Mosca.

However Manolo Caracol also create a guitar style which he made famous and called the Zambra. Perhaps this is what you are referring to.

Kate

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2004 14:28:57
 
Billyboy

 

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003
 

RE: Zambra (in reply to Guest

I have a cracking Zambra that I will atempt to record in the next week, I'll post it when finished, Its by P J Lee, Its the best Zambra I have heard, also easy to play
Dave
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2004 14:39:06
 
Escribano

Posts: 6322
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Zambra (in reply to Guest

Photog, you are a registered member. I have sent you a new password to the email address you registered with.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2004 17:23:38
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Kate

[Deleted by Admins]
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2004 18:24:11
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Zambra (in reply to Guest

Hi Andy,

I'm not familiar with Amaya's Zambras but if they are more Arabic in flavour and nothing like Caracol then I'd she was singing/dancing Zambras of the sacromonte. I rarely listen to recordings, unless they are going on in front of me.

I shall ask a friend of mine, a yong singer. Last week we went to Corboba together for the concurso and he said he had bought a flamenco recording every day of his life. He is a walking encyclopedia and he's only 21.

Estela would know as well, though she's at the concurso all this week. Hopefully we shall be going back for the finals.

Kate

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 1 2004 9:43:22
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3220
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Zambra (in reply to Escribano

Most or the prominent soloists of the Sabicas/Ricardo/Escudero era had pieces they called Zambra, more or less. Generally they were in straight 4/4 time, drop D tuning, Phrygian mode, with a bass that tended toward D-A-d-A...The record jackets of the day often said they were derived from a Moorish harem dance, but the record jackets of the day were as much derived from creative introspection as from fact.

Interestingly enough, at a fashionable night club in the outskirts of Tangier in the late '70s, the band played a piece of the same type. It would have sounded right in place on a Nino Ricardo disc. The band was a typical Moorish band with oud, fiddle held vertically on the knee, the small and large hand drums. The leader played electric guitar, but in a very oud-like way. The Moroccan women in our party were dressed in the latest from Paris or Madrid, but when they heard the piece their maids pulled shawls out of their big handbags and tied them around the ladies' waists. The women then got up and danced in their custom Ferragamo shoes, with motions closely approximating what is called a belly dance in the USA. The maids remained seated but accompanied with complex palmas and occasional ululations.

Quite a few flamencos spent time in La Moreria (Morocco) and quite a few Moroccans have worked in Andalucia for a while. Did the flamencos cop the piece from a Moorish harem dance? How would they have gotten into the harem in the first place? Or is it a fairly popular Moroccan type of piece that the flamencos adapted? Or did the Moroccans cop it off a Nino Ricardo recording? Who knows, at this point--it could be either way.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 2:21:51
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Zambra (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan
Did the flamencos cop the piece from a Moorish harem dance? How would they have gotten into the harem in the first place? Or is it a fairly popular Moroccan type of piece that the flamencos adapted? Or did the Moroccans cop it off a Nino Ricardo recording? Who knows, at this point--it could be either way.
RNJ


LOL well I doubt the Morrocans got it of a Nino Ricardo recording. I think these you refer to are the Manolo Caracol school of Zambra which is a different kettle of flamenco fish from the Zambra of the Sacromonte.

I have read time and again that the Gitanos came to Andalucía with Isobel and Ferdinand. However there are Moorish writings that prove without doubt that the Gitanos were already in Andalucia. It is also probable they were kept as slaves or, if they were young beautiful dancers, kept in the harems. The Junta guide to Flamenco states the origins of the Zambra are Morroccan, though I suppose they could have read that on a record cover

kate

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 12:32:12
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Richard Jernigan

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 14:01:02
Guest

RE: Zambra (in reply to Kate

However there are Moorish writings that prove without doubt that the Gitanos were already in Andalucia.
quote:

However there are Moorish writings that prove without doubt that the Gitanos were already in Andalucia.


Oh Yes??? What are they?

Sean
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 14:55:00
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Zambra (in reply to Guest

Cartas Marruecas: documentos de Marruecos en archivos espanoles ( Siglos XVl - XVll) Not that I've actually read it of course.

While doing a google search to see if I could find anything else along these lines I came across this, fascinating stuff.

"Spain
Chinese Records/ Claims
• The Chinese had traded with Europe since the Song Dynasty. In Zhu Fan Zhi (Description of various barbarians) by Zhao Ru Kua (1170 - 1228 A.D.) there is a chapter about “Mulanpi Kingdom”, identified by Rockhill as the Al Murabitum kingdom of Spain. In Ming Shi (History of Ming Dynasty) in the 'Foreign Countries chapter it says "... Year 6 (1408) Zheng He went to Hormuz (Persian Gulf) and other foreign countries, returned home in year 8 (1410). The countries visited but which did not return tribute are listed as an appendix..." This appendix lists "Mayidong, Kalimanjan, Misr (Cairo) , Mulanpi, Kilin, Sunha...” There are vivid descriptions of the Chinese junks leaving Damietta (Nile Delta) and setting sail west across the Mediterranean for Spain. We believe Mulanpi to be Granada. "

In the same report it shows that the Gypsies of Granada have Chinese DNA.

Likewise the Gypsies have long been traded as slaves and mercenaries and the following shows they were taken to the Middle East long before the Moors arrived in Spain.

"1001-1026. Sindh and the Panjab in India are invaded some seventeen times by a mixed army of Turko-Persian Ghaznivid troops led by King Mahmud from Ghazni (present-day eastern Iran). Indian resistance, in the form of the Rajput warriors, is fierce, but King Mahmud is victorious and takes half a million slaves."

"The role of Gypsies in the military forces of early Islamic sultanates is almost entirely unacknowledged in Romani Studies, but their presence as Sindhi and Rajput warriors in the armies of Mahmud of Ghazni is attested to by al-Utbi and other Arabic historians of the period (EI2, 1986), whilst other sources suggest that they may have been a consistent component of these forces throughout."

Although it assumed that Ferdinand and Isobel brought the Gypsies to Andalucia, it is equally probable they came with the Moors. In Maghrebi Arabic (Morocco), "zambra" means party


Kate

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http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 16:22:40
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Kate

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 16:45:25
 
Escribano

Posts: 6322
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: DNA & history (in reply to Guest

quote:

Today our DNA type is only found in Spain, Syria & Israel


Ancy, How do you know where your DNA type can only be found?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 17:00:08
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Escribano

[Deleted by Admins]
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 17:25:59
 
Escribano

Posts: 6322
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: DNA & history (in reply to Guest

quote:

a mysterious ancient kingdom called Friesland


Friesland is in Holland, North of Amsterdam and there are Frieslanders there. It's also a culture of Northwest Germany, I believe.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 17:50:55
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
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From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: DNA & history (in reply to Guest

Andy, I believe Jews also lived in those three countries.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 18:29:35
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Miguel de Maria

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 18:35:45
 
Escribano

Posts: 6322
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: DNA & history (in reply to Guest

Considering each generation descends a previous generation which was smaller in population, don't we all descend from the same six men and women?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 19:04:55
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Escribano

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 20:06:33
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Zambra (in reply to Guest

This stuff is interesting! I watched a discovery channel show about these Caucasoid peoples who came from the Mesopatamia area and later settled in China. They had all these mummies with red hair!

This is off-topic but at a certain point in the history of the planet, there was a mass extinction, and only one "body-type" survived. All life is descended from this body type. But before this extinction, there were many. And we think octupus and stuff are weird, imagine what the descendants of the other "body-types" would look like!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 20:22:33
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Zambra (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

imagine what the descendants of the other "body-types" would look like!


Paco de Lucia

LOL!

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 21:21:11
 
Billyboy

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2004 21:58:30
 
Miguel de Maria

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2004 6:00:30
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2004 11:07:46
 
Billyboy

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2004 14:00:09
 
Kate

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2004 14:15:27
 
Escribano

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2004 17:24:02
 
Billyboy

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2004 21:14:55
 
Miguel de Maria

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2004 22:15:19
Guest

RE: Zambra (in reply to Billyboy

Thanks Kate/Billyboy and everyone. Sorry I didn't reply earlier, I haven't an internet connection at home and have to use cafe's or other peoples.

Photog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2004 15:20:49
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