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from a paper by John Sloboda
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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 from a paper by John Sloboda
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Some evidence against the "talent myth"
1. In several cultures studied by anthropologists, the great majority of people achieve levels of musical expertise which are far above the norms for our own society. This suggests that cultural, not biological, factors are limiting the spread of musical expertise in our own society.
2. Musical accomplishment does not always run in families. Where children from families with no musical background are given appropriate opportunities and encouragement they can achieve outstanding results.
3. The majority of top-ranking professional musicians were not child prodigies. In fact, studies reveal that very few able musicians showed any signs of special musical promise either in infancy, or even after they had been learning an instrument for some years.
4. There are no clear examples of outstanding achievement in musical performance or composition that were not preceded by many years of intense preparation and practice. In the case of child prodigies, it seems their level of early practice far exceeded that of the normal musician.
5. Many of the perceptual skills required to handle musical input are very widespread, develop spontaneously through the first ten years of life and do not seem to require formal musical instruction to develop. The skill of ‘perfect pitch’ has often been singled out as a special innate sign of ‘musical talent’. In fact, there is evidence that the skill can be learned by any determined person and is actually present in an unrefined form in as much as two-thirds of the general untrained population. Furthermore, only a minority of top-ranking musicians possess perfect pitch in its fully developed form, so it is a rather poor predictor of high achievement.
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Date Apr. 22 2004 17:49:03
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: from a paper by John Sloboda (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Yeah Mike,
That's leaning towards the view that I hold.
To me, music is "thought" led rather than "technique" led.
You can have all the technique in the world, but if you don't know "how" to play, then you're lost.
The greats that we hear, Paco, Tomatito, VA etc started the same way.
They heard the music and wanted to become part of it.
Became intrigued by the "sound" and the falsetas of their heros that they wanted to be able to do that above all else.
So they immersed themselves in Flamenco and after finding out "how" to play, started experimenting to make that picado a little bit faster or that alzapua a little more gritty or that chord a little more thoughtful.
I hardly ever watch television, but I've just finished watching the second episode of the seven Martin Scorsese films entitled "The Blues" and I'm amazed at the parallel with Flamenco.
This week's episode was directed by Mike Figgis, (the director of "Flamenco Women") and looked at the impact of blues on early British blues nuts such as Van Morrison, Peter Green, Alvin Lee, Stevie Winwood, Chris Farlowe, Georgie Fame, Mick Fleetwood, Tom Jones (yes!), with performace clips from John Mayall and the early Rolling Stones.
It was great to see those people talking relaxed and naturally without any makeup, lighting or hype just recalling their youth and the passion and energy they had in going down the all night clubs like the Flamingo and listening to visiting bluesmen like Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker etc.
Alvin Lee said "We just sat at their feet and learned our apprenticeship"
It's great to see how these guy's traded "licks" (falsetas) and knew when somebody had "the sound" and wanted to know how it was done.
Was amazed to see a "popular" music entertainer such as Lulu, without her usual stage makeup and charisma, give a stunning rendition of blues singing amongst fellow blues musicians, a side of her I've never seen, but just goes to show that the roots run deep in a lot of "popular" performers.
I was puzzled to see David Blunkett (British Home Secretary) appear so many times, during the film until I realized it was Eric Clapton. LOL!
cheers
Ron
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Date Apr. 22 2004 22:21:22
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: from a paper by John Sloboda (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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That's interesting, learning melodies has never been difficult for me, although in other areas, I have felt "short bus." But I had a friend who, although a more advanced guitarist than me, had a terrible, terrible time learning and remembering melodies.
But Jon, that article is far from conclusive or even convincing. As one demur-er stated, there was no data on whether either of the twins had any musical background. Although this is somewhat ethereal, musical background can be anything from singing to the belly, to Mozart (or Muddy waters) in the crib, to listening to nursery rhymes and lullabies. I believe these all to be important, which is why my son/daughter will be listening to equal parts Mozart and Paco in the crib. I hope you are taking advantage of this knowledge, Jon!
Time and time again, a musical "phenomenon" who just "picks things up" has been shown to have a hidden musical past. To me, the evidence tilts strongly away from genetic inheritanace and strongly toward experiential factors. And of course when things are not proved it is always better to believe that which can help you achieve your goals!
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Date Apr. 23 2004 15:36:14
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Kate
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
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RE: from a paper by John Sloboda (in reply to Ron.M)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ron.M
I've just finished watching the second episode of the seven Martin Scorsese films entitled "The Blues" and I'm amazed at the parallel with Flamenco.
This week's episode was directed by Mike Figgis, (the director of "Flamenco Women") and looked at the impact of blues on early British blues nuts such as Van Morrison, Peter Green, Alvin Lee, Stevie Winwood, Chris Farlowe, Georgie Fame, Mick Fleetwood, Tom Jones (yes!), with performace clips from John Mayall and the early Rolling Stones.
It was great to see those people talking relaxed and naturally without any makeup, lighting or hype just recalling their youth and the passion and energy they had in going down the all night clubs like the Flamingo and listening to visiting bluesmen like Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker etc.
Alvin Lee said "We just sat at their feet and learned our apprenticeship"
cheers
Ron
Hey Ron,
I dont suppose you videoed this programme. Would love to see it. Harold spent most of his 'perhaps not so' misspent youth hanging out with Alvin Lee and built his very first studio for him and recorded most of these Brit blues men.
There is a definite paralell with flamenco and the blues, though I guess that it is easier to pick up the blues than flamenco. Funnily enough Alvin now lives on the costa here in Spain.
Kate
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Date Apr. 23 2004 16:50:44
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