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RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Peña in Huelva   You are logged in as Guest
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edguerin

Posts: 1575
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

My two pennies worth:

I wish I had come across the soniquete approach about 10 years ago!
Of course the analytic approach is quite wide-spread, and was even given the Gonzalez Climent prize in Spain, back in 1985 (i.e. Ph. Donnier, El duende tiene que ser matematico - Reflexiones sobre el estudio analítico de las Bulerías).



Ed

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 12 2008 21:26:50
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1558
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to gato

ok this has been bugging me for some time, listening to a book i got understanding flamenco, by faustino he says all accents can be broken into binary and tercery accents so in solea

which is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

it can be broken into 2 sets of 3 beats with an accent on the 3rd beat
ie 1 2 3 1 2 3

and the rest of the phrase is binary with 3 sets of 2 beats with an accent on the second beat

1 2 1 2 1 2


now with buleria the understandign is that the cycle starts on 12 and the same accents apply ie 12 3 6 8 10

so you simpy have the same set up but the accent is on a different part of the three beats so buleria

12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

so the accent starts the on the first beat of the compas cycle of for the tercery and binary beats
ie


1 2 3 1 2 3

and then 1 2 1 2 1 2

so the whole compas cycle is

1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 1 2

is this is valid?

best

henry
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2008 13:08:08
 
John O.

Posts: 1720
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to henrym3483

Hey Henry,

stop thinking so complicated, it only makes things worse, just like Anders said. It's not math! Learning by doing is the best thing to do here:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=89372&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

I uploaded a part of a great buleria to play along with, the actual track is 32 mins. and is GREAT for playing along - that's Moraíto playing, basic strumming! Now listen to the half compás at 1:42, this is where the whole 12 count thing falls flat. In the beginning it helps to think in sixes, but eventually you start feeling it without counting.

This could be a bit too difficult if you're not relatively secure playing in compás. I admit I haven't been at it long, but just playing along with this has done me a lot more good than thinking in numbers. I cut it into 5 parts and at first had some difficulties but by the time I was done with the second part I could go to the full version and just play along.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2008 13:44:27
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1558
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to John O.

he john is this from a cd by morao?
i bought the dvd and book last week and am waiting for the post to arrive, it was kinda a self birthday present y'know. hopefully when im in jerez again this summer im going to ask el carbonero just to show me strumming patterns por buleria.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2008 15:09:11
 
John O.

Posts: 1720
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to henrym3483

No it's not, I think it was released by the label "Ethnic", the version I have is from France. Lyrics are all in it!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2008 15:39:39
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1558
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to John O.

does the cd have a name, most of the stuff that came up when i googled it with ethnic was just his morao, morao cd and morao y oro.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2008 15:45:48
 
John O.

Posts: 1720
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to henrym3483

Jeez didn't even put the name anywhere: "Jerez - Fiesta & Cante Jondo"

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2008 15:48:25
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1558
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to John O.

thanks very much john, ill check it out and and sue the remaining birthday funds to see if i can get a copy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2008 16:04:24
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to henrym3483

Hi henrym3483,

That's fine, but a little complicated like Anders, John and others have been saying. I'd add that it's a little more like guajiras than bulería, too.

For bulería, mark a very fast soleá while tapping your foot on the even-numbered beats: 12-2-4, 6-8-10.

I imagine there's already been lots said on this forum about whether bulerías start on 12 or on 1, but I think the difference between bulerías and guajiras is the 1-2-3 count taken from soleá (whether or not it's obvious at a given moment), and guajiras (and that OTHER cante ) start on 12.

Hope that makes sense. I'm laid up at home with the flu, and I've just listened to a bunch of Pepe Marchena. What with the high fever and all, it gets a bit surreal. Sounds like the music my girlfriend's Yorkshire terriers would listen to.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2008 17:31:41
 
duende121

Posts: 86
Joined: Aug. 24 2005
 

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Hi Norman

I really like that one:

quote:

a-m-i-i, a-m-i-i, a-m-i-i, i


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2008 7:53:20
 
duende121

Posts: 86
Joined: Aug. 24 2005
 

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to edguerin

but I prefer that one, you hear that so many times in Jerez, and I think it is the first time I see it written. Thanks
quote:

a-m-i, i-a-m, i-i-a-m, i.


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2008 8:02:59
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to duende121

Hi Martin,

Glad you liked it! Like I said, I'd been puzzling over it for years, and it took a couple of patient explanations from others before it finally clicked, so it's a pleasure to share that with anyone else. Few different ways of fingering that kind of rasgueado, too.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2008 17:35:05
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13512
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to NormanKliman

quote:

ORIGINAL: NormanKliman

I imagine there's already been lots said on this forum about whether bulerías start on 12 or on 1, but I think the difference between bulerías and guajiras is the 1-2-3 count taken from soleá (whether or not it's obvious at a given moment), and guajiras (and that OTHER cante ) start on 12.




An easy generalization to differentiate Guajiras from Bulerias, or Alegrias or bulerias de Cadiz for example, guitar wise, is the harmony changes in Guajiras on 12 and 6, where as bulerias/alegrias etc the harmony changes on 3 and or 10. (That is if we impose the 12 count to all forms mentioned). That simple difference really means a lot to the feel of the rhythm for some reason.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2008 4:09:29
 
michel

Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
From: france

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

thank you anders

very interresting post
thanx ! i'm trying to play my first bulerias by counting the rythm while playing the falseta and using easy compas... but it is nearly impossible to learn it only with brain, you really have to feel it (sorry for the lousy english, i'm french...)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2008 6:30:13
 
John O.

Posts: 1720
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to michel

Michel you're right, it's really tough. Have patience, it'll come!

Maybe just try playing in 3's for a while, then only in 2's for a while,
8 times 3, 12 times 2,
4 times 3, 6 times 2.......

And finally when you can switch easily between the two:
2 times 3, 3 times 2

And that's it!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2008 7:19:50
 
michel

Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
From: france

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to John O.

thank you john

this is a very good idea, did you mean that I should work on with the material I work on usually (Graf Martinez, Juan Martin, Pepe Habichuela) and count this in only in 2 beat and then only in 3 beats? or only with easy-compas? or were you thinking about a special didactic manual or exercise?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2008 11:20:18
 
John O.

Posts: 1720
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to michel

I would say as a beginner learn the easiest, easiest falsetas, simple melodies - these are the ideas and the foundation that you'll find in all falsetas. Graf Martinez and Juan Martin are good, I don't know the level of the Pepe Habichuela material, but if it's basic enough it will be good. Also play only compás with strumming the way I described.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2008 11:44:27
 
michel

Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
From: france

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to John O.

thanx a lot!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2008 13:34:18
 
Wannabee

 

Posts: 131
Joined: Jan. 13 2007
 

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to edguerin

What do you guys think about counting in 5?

That is, counting only the accents in bulerias.

123 456 78 910 11 12

---1 ---2 -3 -4 - 5

Is this common?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2008 5:31:38
 
John O.

Posts: 1720
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to Wannabee

It is common. I've seen it done before and in Spain it's done a lot, when you get to a certain speed it's easier.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2008 6:45:26
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Learning basic Bulerias in a Pe... (in reply to edguerin

Wannabee.

Good idea, but you should still be able to count the 12 2 4 6 8 10 because its the base.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2008 7:13:30
 
michel

 

Posts: 315
Joined: Apr. 14 2008
 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 16 2008 7:52:10
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