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RE: A 2008 challenge?
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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 RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Pimientito)
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quote:
Foot tapping on 1,2..4,5..7,8..10,11?...during whole piece? Gets instant disqualification for being a smart@rse showoff
it's not as hard as it first seems.... when i realised players were doing that i couldn't do it and thought it was impossible, but then i got a mundobeat programmable metronome (i know you can now do it on pc, but i didn't have one then...) and programmed it to do 1,2 4,5 7,8 10,11, just to play along with. I started to hear falsetas, rasgeos, etc., against that pulse, and to hang the music on that rhythmic frame, and after a while i really got it into my head and just started to tap my foot along with it almost by accident...
... so i can do the foot tapping and playing, but that doesn't mean the playing is any good!
actually i don't think paco does that all the way through anyway, he switches to every other beat (12, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10) towards the climax of a falseta, often when it changes rhythmically...
mark
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 10 2008 9:09:26
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Ricardo
Posts: 14818
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Doitsujin)
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quote:
Nobody wanna hear a copy of Paco or Sabicas bacause the original will always stay the best. Why listening to immitations?
Actually, both guys ripped off Ramon Montoya big time. Little things here and there creep in of your own as you "steal" from the old maestros. That is the way flamenco is learned. No one is saying you can't stick YOUR own falsetas into Paco's orginal piece. Go right ahead. But for sure to copy the old maestros is very much the flamenco way. Think about noobs that "compose" their own "flamenco". Sure it is creative, but why is it not the "real" thing? You have to have a base and the best way is to copy the masters and from there find your own way, little by little. I doubt anyone here is going to be the next creator a la R. Montoya, N. Ricardo, Sabicas, Paco, Vicente, etc, by Dec. 08!
So no more whining, just start learning the darn song!
Ricardo
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 12 2008 2:01:41
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
I doubt anyone here is going to be the next creator a la R. Montoya, N. Ricardo, Sabicas, Paco, Vicente
How dare you  i had big plans for my compositions this year jk.
I am torn in this challenge, on the one hand id love to take part and challenge myself (even found the tab and been practicing the first few lines) on the other hand with all respect to the maestro , it will not be smart of me, its no ezy task, which is fine, its sopossed to be a challenge.
As i couldnt use it as much and as much as i respect him and love what he does when he does it ,this buleria its not my cup of tea and if i learn it would be for the wrong reasons and i will not use it ever besides in this challenge.
and you cant do this half way, u have to invest alot of time in it if you were to do it propelly, time i cant afford.
I have so many things on my own list of things i like i would like to learn this year eg. ramon jimenez buleria falsetas, plus i need alot of new intros and falsetas for dances etc.
on the one hand learning this would be great for my technique but i can learn stuff i can acctualy use and like with dancers and still work my technique at the same time.
its too much to sacrifice for the sake of a fun challenge, this is not the kind of solo you learn over night and to do propelly will take ALOT of invested time ich is fine but it would have to be something that i 100% love.
ofcourse in saying all this i might still join , i dont know very undecided, trying to use my limited time effectivly and while practicing learning stuff i like playing and can acctualy use with dancers.
it is a greate idea and good luck to all you guys, and who knows a year is a long time, might change my mind, but as much as i would love to be part of it, i just dont think i can afford the time on something i am not 100% crazy about. no disrespect, its greate when he does it and i respect that, but its not something i identifie with or wanna play, the rithm was played very differently in those days, wasent as well rounded as it is now Imo, dosent say buleria as much to me as the rithm this days does. IMO
Dont get me wrong, Paco is the greatest and everything he does is Gold when he does it, but i wont do it just because its hard to do to proove something, i would if i had the time i used to have but since my time is so limited this days i try to get 100% out of it with stuff i identifie with and can also use.
hope noone finds what i say disrepectfull and hope it makes sence to you.
there are many Paco bulerias i like and would have loved to learn, but for my own taste this isnt one of them, to try to play it for other people and convince them i would feel like a fake because i dont 100% love it or can identifie with it so i would never even attempt to.
every single thing i play, i play cause I simply love.
but i totaly respect and applaud those of you who do have the time to invest in it, and if you love it and identifie with it by all means, do it, just make sure its for the right reasons.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jan. 12 2008 2:30:30
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: A 2008 challenge? (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
I propose that if you just take the time to learn a couple falsetas from this, how about Ron has to learn a bit of Ramon Jimenez, no matter if he likes it or not. And me too. I am willing to learn anything you throw at me so long as you meet me half way too. In the end, we all can gain an understanding and appreciation for something we might not have otherwise.
Ricardo
I am up for that
quote:
The thing that is not fair, is that Ron picked a tune some of us like and some don't.
Acctualy i dont think its that unfair or if it is i wasent thinking that way, u know.. his good idea, fair enough he can pick whatever, its true once it becomes a democratic choice it would turn into chaos and 6 months later we would still be voting on what solo to learn, and nothing would ever get done.
When you have a good idea around here, you kind of have to take charge and have the details worked out before you even present it otherwise once opened for discussion u can kiss the idea good bye, i think we are all learning that .
quote:
Here is my thing. I like both old stuff and new, and think there is no need to NOT study stuff from anyone. Sure there is stuff I dont' go near, but I probably should you know?
I dont think it will hurt me to learn it, i am not making a point of "NOT" learning it but i also dont think it will be time wisely spent in my situation.
I can learn one solo i will probably never use and spend 3 , 4, 5,6, 7 months (however long, not sure ) it will take or i can learn about 6 falsetas, intros , rithm cycles that I could acctualy use.
if i had the luxury of playing 12 hours a day like i used to before i started this the job, i would do it and look at it as an exercise, fun challenge, and still have time to focus on stuff i wanna focus on but since i am so tired after work and have considerable less time with the guitar, i have to just spend it productive, meaning, learn and practice stuff that does both, work my technique and work towards playing the kind of music i wanna be playin.
Not snobing Paco's stuff by any means, i just like what i like.
I mean if this wasent so difficult and demanded so much attention and dedication to the challenge i would be a sport, but its too difficult and time consuming for something that i am not 100 % into.
in saying that, 2 falsetas i could try because it would just be a trip to see Ron play Ramon and getting to pick 2 falsetas for you, 2 falsetas is a better medium for me and none of us have to put our own learning projects on hold for too long.
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Date Jan. 12 2008 7:26:33
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....hey wait a minute....I better not give anything away until after the challenge! 
