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foro member flamenco fake book!!!!!
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HemeolaMan
Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago
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 foro member flamenco fake book!!!!!
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accompaniment.
i´m not pdl, pp, tomatito, etc... spending the 6 hours alone in a room getting my picado up to speed isnt something i can afford!
I really like the idea of playing for dance or cante
aside from listening to recordings, playing for dancers... how can i get more information on palos, how to fake it (in a jazz sense)......
........ what shirts to wear.....lol
as far as im aware theres never really been a flamenco "fake book"
you know, instead of tunes like "on a misty night" or "night dreamer" why not assemble a here's a bulerías chart, heres a fandagos¨, this ones an alegrías...
i remember a while back we did a chord ¨collaboration. maybe we could assemble a flamenco fake book, a goodly number of the common palos
if you guys post the progressions and such, i can make them all nice and computery, upload em or publish them hardcopy style.
¿whataya say?
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Date Dec. 27 2007 19:33:56
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Ricardo
Posts: 15163
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: foro member flamenco fake book!!!!! (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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quote:
oh never for a gig, i jus tmeant for a noob or someone who isnt familiar with anythign about flamenco, they could sit down read it, get a sense of the compas, have some pre-written right hand patterns with chords and be able to have a starting point!
I would really love to start the ball rolling, but i'm afraid i haven't got anything useful to contribute here lol.
Well, "pre-written right hand patterns" is already getting extremely complex, IMO, if it is to be authentic. But assuming folks have some compas already, and just need the "charts", I would say it could be done, starting with Alegrias being the easiest, just two chords. Later adding in some sub chords for the same letras.
Taranto for baile being perhaps the most complex chart.
Also would help music reader is the cante melody were written in like the "head" of a jazz chart, with chords above or underneath.
Now I think about, this whole idea is not really good unless you are already a music reader AND have some experience with compas techniques for flamenco...
Best thing is just hook up with a singer and start learning how to accompany, and forget the charts. 
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Date Dec. 31 2007 4:24:37
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Ricardo
Posts: 15163
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: foro member flamenco fake book!!!!! (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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Ok, Alegrias.
Cmajor - counts 1-6. G7 counts 7-9
C major on count 10-12, and through the next compas all the way to 9.
G7 10 and on through the next compas to 9
C on 10 through next compas,
G7 on 10 etc until the letra is over.
So you just keep compas (rasgueado proper with accents and golpes n stuff) and rock back and forth between C and G7 on count 10. Only thing weird is the very first compas. Now if you dont' listen to the melody of the singer, and put the G7 where the C is supposed to go, what good was the chart? Just C and G7. Sounds easier than it is.
quote:
the point is, hooking up with a singer or dancer is sometimes impossible. Then why do you need to learn how to accompany? Seriously, I know what you are saying, and I am saying learning from a chart or music is WAY WAY harder and more time consuming than if you just sit down with a singer for a FEW MINUTES.
I could lay out a chart of Taranto for guitarist that has some experience but just not for that form, but it would be much faster if he just tried to do it himself, making mistakes here and there to correct, rather than ignore the singer and follow the chart.
But if you want more like the alegrias I am willing to share it.
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Date Dec. 31 2007 6:07:57
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: foro member flamenco fake book!!!!! (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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 , sure, what do you need ?
I am not sure what i am soopossed to do 
let me know what u need.
so that u dont get in trouble and can cover yourself, u have to copy all the info and rewritte it .
for example a exercisse out of a book, u cant use the page out of the book, just retab the exercise..... I think that works
One of the things that will be usefull to you u and allready have here on the forum is the Chord Dictionarry that Ricardo and others wrotte and someone put it in pdf, thats nice and useful.
And Thomas and Patrick wrote a quic usefull, How to record FLamenco guitar pdf, not sure if u wanna devote some time to that too, mibe you can devote some pages to logistical stuff involved to flamenco etc, recording, life sound, how to correctly lower the action of a guitar, nail shape, length and products etc....
A suggestion of how the book may be set up...except for general technique exercises, relate everything to Palos, and not keys.
eg. Say u start with Alegrias in E ...
- in Alegrias, a typical basic Escobilla, variations to it,
- few diff Silencios,
- basic alzapua used in rithm (since Alzapua and Picado are used alot in alegria) variations to it.
- Basic Cierre, variations to it
- Rithm Strumming patterns
- all the Modes and all the known Chords one could use in a key
Repeat all this in all the known Alegrias Keys, except for strumming patterns obviously.
I got alot of exercises, scales etc , i can send you but u have to do the rewritting
it would be cool if at the back you also had a section we had of exercises and different aproaches and views from big name guitarists we had perssonaly had lessons with etc, David Cerreduela or Jeronimo, Jarana, Gerardo, Manolo etc.
exclusive stuff as well as stuff u can find in books
that would be really cool.
It is ALOT of work, but if u are willing to do it, il support you.
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Date Dec. 31 2007 18:05:40
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HemeolaMan
Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago
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RE: foro member flamenco fake book!!!!! (in reply to Florian)
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quote:
Also you should dedicate some parts to Dance accomp and Cante , and writte related stuff to it that anyone can use.
eg.
- in Alegrias, a typical basic Escobilla, variations to it,
- few diff Silencios,
- basic alzapua used in rithm (since Alzapua and Picado are used alot in alegria) variations to it.
- Basic Cierre, variations to it
- Rithm Strumming patterns
Repeat all this in all the known Alegrias Keys, except for strumming patterns obviously.
I got alot of exercises, scales etc , i can send you but u have to do the rewritting yeah if i knew anything about how to do that lol.
i really just need people to throw some stuff out at me like, this to this from counts x to y then here. jus thte form, where the golpes go.
i know little about flamenco lol. "oh yes, just do this, you know strum the standard stuff" lol which means little or nothing to me.
scribble out a compas or two on a page with just rhythm marks and scan it! lol that i can build a whole piece form lol.
you guys are the ones i need the help from! i know almost nothing, assume that nothing is taken as read lol.
after that i'll obviously make it purty lookin in sibelius.
quote:
One of the first things u allready have here on the forum is the Chord Dictionarry that Ricardo and others wrotte and someone put it in pdf, thats nice and useful. sounds exactly like what i'm going to do!
quote:
it would be cool if you had a section we had of exercises from big name guitarists we had perssonaly had lessons with etc, David Cerreduela or Jeronimo, Jarana, Gerardo, Manolo etc.
exclusive stuff as well as stuff u can find in books
that would be cool
it would be super cool. anything you want to see in there would be cool if you contribute lol
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Date Dec. 31 2007 18:51:35
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: foro member flamenco fake book!!!!! (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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well, to get you started, send ,me your email and i will email you some zips filled with pages of Alzapua and exercises and scales etc, will that help ?
I have allready extracted those togheder for myself as i dont like looking trough a million books when i practice, but this is just 10% of what i have, still it will keep you writting and quiet for about 3 months
then you can start rewritting it.
once you start taking phisical steps towards it , you find that it will slowly start to fall into place, and people might even be more enclined to help once they see that you are serious and comited to it.
Besides atm , you dont have to know anything to just start copying, u do the database entry, we can help fill in the blanks and organise the Ideas.
For eacho Palo u can make Thread, say one Palo a week.
Alegrias in E for - The Real book Project
in there everyone can contribuite everything we can think of in that key and palo that may be usefull.
Everything is possible and doable, you need a plan, commitment, patience and organisational skils, more than knolodge in the subject. The stubborness to keep going and see it to the end even if it seems like everyone else has lost interest.
But if you succed !!!, wow !!! what a book it will be, noone has ever had the patience or commitment to achive something this big and widely helpfull in flamenco. It will also make us flamencos look more togheder and organised, rather than involved just into ourselfs and everyone taking the trip solo.
I mean other genres have they own Real Books.
What makes us less organised ?
There are tons of usefull basic information that isnt written down or put togheder that one could use.
If one was to make notes of everything we have ever talked about at the foro and put it into a book , we would have had the greatest most helpfull book.
its not that farfetched and imposiblle
Every student in every country will be forever gratefull to you
And the fact that it comes from this forum and we were involved, it will make us even more proud of it and you.
Also might I suggest finding someone as dedicated to it as yourself and share the database entry load, he dosent have to be an expert, is just that most of the work is database entry.
florianremus1@hotmail.com
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Date Dec. 31 2007 18:55:04
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: foro member flamenco fake book!!!!! (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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forghet compas, mibe reference to it (etc, bulerias is counted in 12s) , but dont worry too much about it, no compas or notation, majority of flamencos dont read notation, and that is the people you are doing this for. U cant learn compas and feel from a book, just focus on the stuff that you can learn from a bbook, Imo
And NO VOLUMES !! its has to be 1 book ! thats the whole point lol, all the info you need in one place.
but this is your baby , i am just offering ideas
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Date Dec. 31 2007 19:44:47
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