RE: The building of a Swedish flamenco guitar

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HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to aarongreen)

i'd love to see some pics of those jigs

that sounds like a real interesting bit of engineering, and im having trouble picturing it lol.

promise i won steal any of your secrets! lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 27 2007 8:58:08

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to Per Hallgren)

quote:

A good piece of advice that I picked up early on was that anything that you find to be a real pain in the butt (making bridges) is something you may want to figure out a better way of doing.

There´s another approach which is a bit more ZEN: Learn to appreciate what you do. Its easy to say, I know, but I actually learned to like making bridges. I also make some 6 - 10 at a time for the same reason as you do, but no fancy jigs, just a drillpress and some files and stuff.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2007 4:35:36

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I never make more bridges than I need for the individual guitar. I wait for the inner silence, then, when it comes, I create the bridge in a tornado of inspired moves using my japanese chisels as the samurai swords they actually were meant to be. It is hardly flamenco, but it works...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2007 5:38:49

aarongreen

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

There´s another approach which is a bit more ZEN: Learn to appreciate what you do.

Yes thats true, thats why I french polish my guitars. :) Sorry amigo but you walked into that one!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2008 1:37:46

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

Aaron.

You´re right, but I walked into it with open eyes, because I know what you say and I actually thought about it when I posted.
I had no problem with the French Polish process, but I didn´t like the result so much. I found that what Antonio Ariza does is far better than what I do, so I took the descission to leave it to him. Besides, its culture. All the builders I know of here in Spain leave their guitars to a pro when it comes to finishing.

I might actually start to FP again when I get settled down a bit more. It is very ZEN.

saludos y feliz año nuevo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2008 20:23:55

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

Hi Anders

I still have a guitar to be french polished and i would like to give it to a professional. Could you please mail me the adress or phone number of
Antonio Ariza? I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Armando

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2008 20:56:52

aarongreen

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hi Anders,
All in good jest sir. In the end its the results that count. Your friend certainly does a nice job and while I enjoy french polishing, I would kill to find someone to fill the pores on my guitars for me.

Hi Per,
I like your style, however you must first wait till the bridge blank attacks you. Otherwise you are in error and must use your chisels one last time to attone for your grievences. Can I have your wood stash? :)

Happy New Year everyone!

aaron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2008 23:51:19

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

I would kill to find someone to fill the pores on my guitars for me

But Aaron, Porefilling is pure ZEN

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2008 4:15:05

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

Well, I realize that it is some time since I rang the bell about doing this presentation but time has been short during all those hollidays...ah, soon it is over and we can continue our real lives again...

Anyway, thought I should try to post a first part. As I wrote in the beginning of this thread I will write quite short and let those who have any questions ask about it, and also, I will not ask for being the sole conductor. Anyone who wants can take the lead for a while and we can see where we are getting. This photo presentation was made in two swedish guitar forums, one for “classical guitar” and one for “acoustic guitar”, and the purpose was mostly about presenting the overwhelming amount of small details that come together in a fine guitar and pointed to guitarists, not guitarmakers. I realize that we are a bunch of guitarmakers in this Foro. Please be nice to me! Everything was done during a normal working day and everything was improvised during the work. No planning ahead, no special lights, no pretentions about being a good photographer or anything. Take it as it is! I will not spend the whole day trying to make my english better than it spontanously will be while writing from the heart. I am sure much will be in “Swenglish”...

OK. Here’s the starting point. I have joined the top and back. I have picked a suitable neck from the shelf and gathered some other preshaped parts as the fingerboard for example.

The first task is to make the rosette. This is an example of one of my rosettes. It is a traditional design with a mosaic as a central motif and borders with different coloured veneer lines and “rope”.

I will make a little bit less complicated design for this flamenco guitar. It is a paraphrase of a Santos rosette.

The mosaic design is drawn on a paper.

I cut strips from veneers and size them to exact equal thickness. In this case 0.50 mm

Every bunch of strips will make one row in the mosaic.

I glue the strips together...

...and working with plane and scraper I thin them to the same thickness as the original veneer strips, 0.50 mm. This way every strip will be square looking from the short end.

The veneer rows is positioned in the correct order forming a log...

...and glued together.

The logs are sliced...

I cut a thin slice from a veneer stack of different colors. The slice is cut to thin strips.

Looking from the correct angle the rope design is revealed.

Different colored veneer strips are cut to be used as lines in the borders on both side of the central mosaic.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2008 7:41:42

nhills

Posts: 230
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: West Des Moines, IA USA

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to Per Hallgren)

Great stuff!
Thank you - looking forward to the rest of it!
Norman

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 2:38:43

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

Time to prepare the top for the rosette. I cut the outline in the bandsaw and work it down to 3.0 mm in the drumsander. After scraping it smoth removing the sanding marks from the machine it is ready to receive the rosette.

For the guitarmakers I can mention some details on my down draft table/ vacuum bench. It is made of a thick bench top with a box attached beneath. Holes are drilled through the top into the box. The dust collector is attached to the box. The vacuum is strong enough to let me scrape and even plane tops and backs by simply laying them on the bench top. No clamps are needed.

Here I have gathered all the prepared material for the rosette.

I use a simple circle cutter to cut the outline of the central mosaic.

With a small Dremel style router I remove the wood in the channel.

I fit the mosaic dry.

Then I glue it.

I thin the sides in the drum sander to just above 2.0 mm.

I scrape the sides to 2.0 mm.

I use a very common style of bending machine originally invented by Charles Fox. It is very conveniant, fast and safe to use. Three light bulbs are the heat source. The wood is placed in beween two heated steel slats and slowly bent.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 5:25:11

r0bbie

Posts: 160
Joined: Feb. 11 2007
From: Holland

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

Per,

you write about the draft table/ vacuum bench and I wonder if the vacuum comes from a "ordinary" vacuum cleaner. Also, it looks like the remaining holes dont have a plug but dont you loose a lot of vacuum this way? If not its brlliant! and I will build something similar when I start building again.

Anyway its great you are doing this this because it takes a lot of time and effort.

Rob.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 11:05:37

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

Let me start to explain the construction of the box in more detail. When I built it I realized that I would have difficulties to distribute the airflow vacuum to every hole in that big area if I just let the suctcion pipe end where it enters the box. My solution to this was to let the pipe end in the middle of the box. Then I built a lid consisting of a frame on which I glued peg board masonite (masonite with a lot of holes in). Centered on the pegboard, i.e. as a slightly smaller rectangel I glued a piece of ordinary masonite so that a 10 cm wide frame of the pegboard still was exposed. This lid I fastened above the pipe half way up in the box. Do you get it? It is a simple solution that makes a big difference in how the vacuum bench works.

My dust collector is a 5 hp industrial machine that serve all my machines and also is used for cleaning the floor etc. An ordinary house vacuum cleaner would not be enough to create enough vacuum in so many holes. The machines, no matter size, need some airflow to cool the engine so it is not possible to let all the suction holes in the table top be covered by the work piece.

Rob, what happened with your guitar? At your web site the pics stop at bracing the top. Did you finish it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2008 19:54:41

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

With a sharp block plane I smoth the face of the top and rosette.

Then I cut and rout for two channels, one inside, one outside of the mosaic.

After gluing I use the block plane and a scraper to level the rosette.

I sand the bent cypress sides smoth on the inside and cut them to length. The two sides meet at the centerline when placed in a mold.

I cut long strips from a big block of cedar wood. I plane them to a almost triangula profile.

Then I cut them to small gluing blocks, peones.

I scrape the cypress back to thickness after working it in the drumsander.

Then I glue the center joint reinforcement.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 1:54:20

r0bbie

Posts: 160
Joined: Feb. 11 2007
From: Holland

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

Per,

You asked what happend to my guitar, Below is a picture of my daughter Robin and my "shop" She was born on 28-12-07 and a couple of months ago I had to give up the only room that was not in use, apart from me building the guitar there.

I hoped I could finish the guitar before I had to give up this room but the dehumidifier stopped working and I had to stop working on the guitar when humidity went up to 60%

Now I am looking for a container or something to put in the garden so I can continue building there. That is gonna by MY space, for me alone! no female can drive me out of there

I have to update my website, I know

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Attachment (1)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2008 23:14:50

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to r0bbie)

I see Robbie. What a sweety! In a decade or so she is ready to be taught to make her own guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2008 3:44:59

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

When I work with the top in order to give it the right thickness I tap and listen to the sound during the whole process of planing and scraping but it is more the feeling of correct stiffness in my hands that tells me when to stop. When the feeling is right I decide that this is it! Good self confidence is good to have although not always present. Usually I leave some margins to work with later after stringing the guitar. As long as there is wood there is hope!

I draw the bracing design at the back of the top.

Then I glue the soundhole reinforcement.

When it is dry I cut out the soundhole with the circle cutter.

I collect the cut outs to give me perspective of my life...

I bend two strips of beech wood for back linings.

Then I glue them to the sides.

The back reinforcement is shaped after gluing and some time to dry. The plane automatically gives the right thickness of little less than 2 mm.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2008 3:46:13

r0bbie

Posts: 160
Joined: Feb. 11 2007
From: Holland

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

Per,

How old is your son? does he play guitar and does he likes to build one?
This must be great to see him build his own guitar. I explained once how to practice a rasguado to my son and two weeks later he showed it to me on the guitar. I had a hudge smile on my face watching him play my guitar.

have to go now.... feed the little one

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2008 10:43:00

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 11 2011 17:19:08

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2008 19:36:21

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to r0bbie)

Robbie, my son is 11 and playing both electric and acoustic guitar, both in bands and by himself. His interest in building come and go. He has been working on his guitar for two years and I never push him. However it is almost finished now so he is showing a little more eagerness.

JBASHORUN, glad you like it! There is more to come. Most of it is the common stuff you find in every builders shop but some things maybe can be of special interest.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2008 20:19:16

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to Per Hallgren)

Per thank you so much for taking the trouble to post all this. I've no skills working with wood myself, but my husband used to do a lot of marquetry and I showed it to him - he was very impressed with the detail and care in your work.

I'm impressed with the large stack of cut outs!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2008 21:40:04

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to Ailsa)

Ailsa, you are welcome! All the pictures are already taken (for the presentations I did on the Swedish Forum), except for those of the fretwork and french polishing which is supposed to happen in a few weeks, so it is not that much work since I don't write much about it. As I wrote earlier the pictures are not so much to teach guitarmaking as to show the amount of different details that make up a guitarbuilding process. Usually we see pictures of just a few details.

The guitar has come out quite nice. I put strings on it the 31st of December and now a week later it has started to reveal its character. Hopefully I can invite Henrik Duende on a cup of coffee and some guitarplaying later this spring when the guitar is finished...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2008 22:00:52

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

The presentation I did at the Swedish forum followed every working day but since that is not longer needed I will show the different details in a more structured way. Now it is time for the neck, a detail I usually have as a work in between when waiting for the glue to dry at the bracing work for example.

Since the glue is water based, either hot hide glue or Titebond, I prefer to prepare the neck at least a week in advance. The neck has got the neck block glued as well as the head and head veneer. Now it is time to shape the head. I fasten a head template with doublesided tape and two small screws.

After bandsawing the waste I rout with a flush trim router bit. I use two routers, one from above and one from beneath. This way I can have a safe rotation direction for the bit and no tear out.

I use a simple drill jig to drill the holes for the tuner rollers.

With a hand held router I rout the two slots in the head.

Here is the result from the different machine operations.

With chisels and files I trim the details of the head outline.

With a saw, chisel and files I square the string ramps.

With gramil, router and chisels I carve the head veneer.

The head is completed but still looks unfinished until the neck is carved.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2008 0:50:12

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

The soundhole is cut out. Now I shape the soundhole reinforcement with chisels, scrapers and finishing paper.

The braces is made from a spruce block. It is very important to get as long fibers as possible, i.e the wood has got to be split in both directions.

Here are all the rough braces before cutting to length and gluing.

I use a scooped out solera to produce a doming of the top.

Hot hide glue is without comparison when gluing the braces.

I have a long gluing bench with a ceiling above used as a go bar system.

The fan braces are planed to correct height and profile.

At the very end of the braces they are cut down to meet the top.

The cross braces are glued and shaped.

A small plate is glued beneath the fingerboard to prevent cracks in the top.

Here is the finished top.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2008 1:57:22

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to Per Hallgren)

Per,

Nice Birkenstocks!

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www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2008 6:14:44

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to TANúñez)

That is a part of the luthier uniform!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2008 6:33:42

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

I thought it was part of the Rudolf Steiner/Waldorf uniform.

Very nice photo essay. I realize how nice it is to watch a part a day instead of the whole thing at the same time. I see much more details. Its like opening the "julekalender" I miss the swedish though

What do you do to prevent the braces from "soaping" around when gluing them with hide glue?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2008 19:05:21

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Oooops, one of the picture links didn't work. Fixed now.

Anders, I simply position the brace, rub it gently to and fro some millimeters (or about 1/8" for all imperial folks...)

until it feel s a little tacky. Then I keep the brace steady with one hand while positioning the go bars by the other. I find it more difficult to glue wide areas with hot glue where it is more difficult to make a rubbed joint.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2008 20:00:31

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

The slots for the sides are cut in the neck block.

After some uninteresting machine work the neck block, foot and heel looks as this.

I carve the heel.

I shape the beech lining to a rounded profile.

A side brace is glued on the lower side of the waist.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2008 4:07:12

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: The building of a Swedish flamen... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

Before the guitar is assembled I take careful notes on every measurable detail.

I start the assembly by cutting of the crossbraces just inside the outline.

I rout the neck block to the depth of the top. When glued the top shall be in level with the surface of the neck. To minimize stress in the top I cut the recess in a slight angle. The neck will be set forward two mm at the saddle compared to the plane of the top.