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RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
Does any of them match the high standard of the professionals we are spoiled to listen to? No, none of them does!
I judge guitarists by their sensitivity in accompaning the cante. I have heard sevel doing it well in Andalucía. None of the are represented here. Surprise
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante)
quote:
I judge guitarists by their sensitivity in accompaning the cante. I have heard sevel doing it well in Andalucía. None of the are represented here. Surprise
Well, if you feel that anyone failed to properly represent female guitarists here, and did so either maliciously or for apathy and lack of interest in that gender's artistry, why don't you simply propose something we could watch/listen to, instead of protesting?
There are female musicians excelling in every genre of music, breaking free from any traditional misconception. I suppose that some of the best violinists in the last generation are females. On the other hand, I haven't seen or heard any in the flamenco guitar category.
It is not out of callous misogyny, if that was the silly implication, but I am sure I misunderstood a subtle yet elegant point in your post "None of the (sic) are (sic) represented here. Surprise" (?)
PS.: Incidentally, if I may parse your grammar -and I add that this colloquialism has become rather recurrent and perhaps even acceptable- the subject of the sentence is not "them" but "none" which is singular -as in No One- hence the verb must conjugate accordingly: None of them is. For a most entertaining debate on this grammatical point see http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=233895 I love a gent from Texas suggesting to resolve the problem by saying, "none of them ain't"
Posts: 6441
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante)
Can you provide some references, otherwise your post just appears smugly dismissive of those that don't have the opportunity to go to the pena once a week? I know this a mainly US-centric guitar forum but you could educate a little, no? I used to video such experiences in Spain. Perhaps you could do the same with a smartphone and take it upon yourself to share a little? Lots of question marks there Sean but we had an interesting time in Jerez and Cadiz a while ago and your reports, photos and videos would be very interesting. I would love to hear some more with depth, considering your audience.
Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to El Kiko)
the best one ...that i already know many of you have seen before ..is this one ...because ...its fun ... and has all the elements of waht flamenco is really about ..
and everyone here is always sooo critical about ''compas ' in and out of compas .. or losing it .. or ' elasticity .. and all that stuff .. the answer is here .. it comes from how you feel and how you engage you r audiece and friends ... the title is super correct ..
Flamenco como Dios manda if only more people could feel this in there playing
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to El Kiko)
quote:
the best one ...that i already know many of you have seen before ..is this one ...because ...its fun ... and has all the elements of waht flamenco is really about ..
Finally, a real player! She's got it.. It's in the rhythm.
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Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to ToddK)
quote:
quote: Morante: "I judge guitarists by their sensitivity in accompaning the cante."
Todd: "I tend to go by how well they play the guitar."
Ziiing! Nothing like a stiletto slipped between the ribs, with the victim hardly aware of it! (Until it's too late.)
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante)
Just a spontaneous thought, without having seen any of the vids linked to above:
I suppose it needs a kind of tomboy for female flamenco guitarist. ( Like that friend of mine when a kid. She was a real chap and the best soccer player of the whole of 500 children. Perfect to go and steal horses with, as we say in German.)
Flamenco is just manly music. Very energetic, explosive and accented. Not typical for what you expect as female characteristic.
I am alright with finding competent females in all professions formerly understood as male jobs ( besides, including really proficient rock guitarists), but wouldn´t seek for out of all female flamenco players. Even though there will very likely be a number of convincing examples and exceptions out there.
All in all I consider it a male domain still. Some things might just be that. ... Like the job of a conductor. Can´t remember a popular female case - that would have been praised ...
Or in martial arts .. styles that live from secluded, abrupt movement ( one could say `very rhythmically emphasized´) for the eye, just don´t fit females. Somehow they always look displaced there. However, with schools that get their speed from blending and even movements females can be just as explosive like males. ... Me thinks.
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante)
Wow Kiko, I've not seen that video! I love when people can sing and play flamenco, it's the colest thing ever. She rocked that bulerias, that was incredible.
Ruphus - Tell Ronda Rousey girls are out of place in martial arts. I've trained for years, weigh twice as much as her and I'm still pretty sure she'd whoop my ass. Lol
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to ToddK)
quote:
Finally, a real player! She's got it.. It's in the rhythm.
I think ToddK is just exhausted, and gave in.
She sure has the Rhythm and the Passion, and even has the "sensitivity to accompany (her own) cante" ... but is this really Great Playing ?
Each of the ladies featured in the assorted videos presented here have enough skills that, if posting on this Foro, would be hailed as some of the finest musicians.
What I meant, however (and thought ToddK meant the same) is that there ain't any female flamenco-guitarist who rises to the level of the Professional recording artists we admire, from Pena to Tomatito, Amigo or Del Morao, etc, or even our own Grisha or Ricardo (leave alone the greatest, De Lucia).
I just do not believe there is any (yet) I would want to have on my playlist, and if there is, she certainly was not showcased in those videos.
Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to gj Michelob)
noo .. there is tons of them , try changing languages and looking there are girls playing all kinds of instruments at a very high level .. and in all kind of cultures and situations ... the best ones ..like some stuff i put up earlier are the ones who just do it cos it feels right ...its effortless ...
here one ... easy ..warning not flamenco ...but dancable ..
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante)
GJ did say there's a lot in every other musical avenue just specifically no "female flamenco guitar virtuosos". I think I agree, I'd be super impressed to see those girls in person but don't know if I'd pay $75 a ticket to see 'em.....
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Leñador)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leñador
Ruphus - Tell Ronda Rousey girls are out of place in martial arts. I've trained for years, weigh twice as much as her and I'm still pretty sure she'd whoop my ass. Lol
Yudo doesn´t belong to explosive styles that I was aiming at. What `soft´moving is concerned, see if you can find out about advanced Wing Tsun ladies. Yet, despite of such functional effciency, I was about something else. Claiming that accentuated movement / rhythm is not for females, thus apparently scarce examples of overwhelming female flamenco guitarists.
Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Leñador)
In the end , i dont know .., i think maybe there are less because girls just dont want to play it ..apart from a few songs to sing and that ..... Maybe I will get shot down for sounding sexist . and after that other thread about all that ... Maybe girls themselves dont see at an instrument for that suits them ... if you look for female violinists and piano players , and quite a lot of other things you will find girls in varying quantities depending on the instrument ...
the thing about the guitar ...all types really .. is that when a guy gets one , he is competitive ....
So I can play faster and you .. and louder ,, and put more aggression into it and i am better than the next guy ...ok lets have a play off ...
this probably puts a lot of girls off .. guys being guys .. but some just cant help it .. sorry
Plus as was looking around at the girl guitarist i see the comments on you tube from guys.... wow yoiu ae so fantastic .. i think you are the best ever , well done it was sooo good ...etc etc ... but in reality ,, it was crap .. sorry but wear nice clothes and make up smile and play arpeggios of A D and C maj ... and you will get all the nicest things said about you ... unfortunately none of the comments are useful ...or even accurate ...
now theres me being a guy agian .....and if i wrote underneath all the comments ... ';; this is really bad , please learn some more chords and try to improve the way you play by etc etc ...'' then every other guy after me will jump on me saying ..i am a dick and i am no good cant you see she is trying and all that pseudo protective crap ....
so really you just cant win .....
So good luck to all the female guitarists in the world ....i hope there will be more as there approach is much different ... but there will always be less ,.. and for some reason will always be regarded differently ...its just human nature that cant be changes much ....
anyway ....now that i will be shot by the crew ... i leave with this .
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante)
I think traditionally in flamenco, gender roles have been pretty strict with women being funneled into cante and baile while the guitar has remained male dominated.
I really don't think there is anything inherently male about flamenco guitar, or that women are somehow less apt to be able to play it. It's just how things have been broken down over the years, but I'd be willing to bet that in 20-50 more years things will have changed significantly in that regard as flamenco continues to evolve.
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Andy Culpepper)
quote:
I think traditionally in flamenco, gender roles have been pretty strict with women being funneled into cante and baile while the guitar has remained male dominated.
I really don't think there is anything inherently male about flamenco guitar, or that women are somehow less apt to be able to play it. It's just how things have been broken down over the years, but I'd be willing to bet that in 20-50 more years things will have changed significantly in that regard as flamenco continues to evolve.
Agreed. I think it's just parental/societal encouragement from an early age and access to consistent, ongoing training that accounts for the difference.
RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to ToddK)
I think he means its boring. Take away the singing (which I personally didn't find that captivating) and that just sounds like a beginner banging away repetativly at a cheap $200 factory guitar with no finesse or feeling whatsoever...the playing is awful. And I hate the way she cuts the 10 that's the worst part.
But all things considered they are outdoors busking so she is probably just trying to get volume out of a bad guitar, give her a good guitar and a nice room to play in and it would probably be a difference of night and day.
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