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Volume and lowering the action
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Ricardo
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: Volume and lowering the action (in reply to bahen)
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I dont' understand the physics but, lowering the strings closer to the board, makes the guitar lose a little volume (you would think the opposite!). But what you lose by doing that you gain ease of play, right and left hand, quicker response, and "snap" of the the strings. I think the snapping makes the guitar a bit brighter too. You can regain some lost volume by switching to higher tension strings. Don't underestimate the importance of string brand and tension. Not all guitars like the same strings, so don't be afraid to waste a little $ experimenting with strings, or mixing and matching different sets. When you find what your guitar likes, it will really have been worth it.
For Guitarbuddah, don't be so afraid to adjust your way to play abit for a different guitar set up. I have several guitars and each requires every so slightly a different touch so to speak. A good guitar can't be "over played" as you described, even with a very low action. YOu dont' want the guitar to sound like a banjo of course! But playing over the rosette for example, is not so typical in flamenco technique. Playing closer to the bridge, not so much as far as the "metallic" sound, but in the middle, is what I call the "sweet spot" that I try to find, and each guitar might be a little different. I move my hand milimeters till I find it. Some guitars don't have what I am looking for, but all good flamenco guitars I can find that spot.
I will never forget once seeing Gerardo take a students guitar and start playing. At first the guitar had a bit of a "nasal" sound, but over time he kept playing and the sound changed. By the end the guitar was very sweet clear and punching, and it was because of the way his right hand was adjusting to the guitar.
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Date Nov. 15 2007 22:48:32
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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RE: Volume and lowering the action (in reply to bahen)
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quote:
I had a pupil once with a Les Paul of which he was clearly proud but the guitar sounded like sh@t because of a crazy HM lead setup.
To be honest, I dont think you get the point guitarbudhha and what you say is just prejudice.
Art is ethics, and Heavy Metal ethics is what you describe as sh@t..... If you changed the setup of this guys Less Paul with 12 gauge strings and a Jazz setup, he would maybe tell you that the guitar sounds like sh@t or maybe he will be more openminded and tell you that it doesnt suit his purpose.
So is Flamenco. It has its ethics, and everyone is allowed to think and mean whatever they want, but the ethics will (hopefully) stay the same. Even the best players here in Spain still look for a VERY percussive guitar, because in their flamenco ethics its the thing that counts the most. You can say that adjusting the strings higher, playing closer to the soundhole, evt. Putting higher frets on the guitar will make the guitar louder. They will just laugh at you  because they will think you havent a clue, that you havent an idea of what is flamenco ethics.
You can go outside Spain and most good flamenco players will tell you the same. Read Ricardos posts, he actually dislike guitars with to many harmonics.... So do I for flamenco and so do most flamenco players.
You are of course allowed to think what you do, but please remember that its just your way of seeing things and that (maybe) you could learn from others.
I can understand that you dont have a "real" flamenco guitar. It explains a lot. Get one. It´ll teach you an enourmous amount of flamenco ethics, and most probably it´ll change your way of thinking and playing.
The same with this guys Les Paul. Ask him if you can join in with his Heavy group, and play his sh@tty sounding guitar ove a double Marshall stack with tons of distortion. Maybe it´ll change your life as well. 
_____________________________
Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
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Date Nov. 17 2007 12:49:20
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guitarbuddha
Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
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RE: Volume and lowering the action (in reply to Anders Eliasson)
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Anders I respect your opinion on guitars,also your knowledge on their construction and maintenance clearly exceeds mine by several orders of magnitude. I also know that you are a capable and experienced guitar player.
You're not going to like the rest but YOU SET THE TONE.
The Les Paul sounded bad mostly because the strings were SITTING ON TOP OF of the first fret, rendering it unsuitable for open string playing. It was set up badly YOU WOULD CERTAINLY AGREE. I have a similar problem on my Ibanez destroyer but find it suitable for shredding whenever I feel the urge (almost never but I still like to hear it done well -see the Greg Howe I posted) but it is useless for thrashy rhythm playing no matter how much distortion I use because the pitch is too indistinct it needs repaired . However, oddly enough my pupil who owned the les Paul in question was a sixty something exmechanic WANTED TO PLAY JAZZ and he bought a Les Paul because of the name Les Paul, the Jazz player and innovator and electronics innovator who designed it. The set up was not his decision it was the shops, it was done poorly (and I HAVE had an instrument which was set up well for HM and know how it should feel). Shops know that particulary for electric guitars people buy mostly on playability and looks, I am not morally or 'ethically' opposed to this style of setup but if it is done badly then the guitar neither plays nore sounds good. I feel that I could have done him better justice as a teacher if I had known more about jazz and how to teach it.
Being unashamed of playing classical does not make me prejudiced against flamenco or flamenco guitars or any other style of music. However being unashamed of playing classical DOES inspire responses like yours. Here are a list of your prejudices (defined as assumptions that you have made about me for the purposes of your last post but which are false.)
1. I do not understand or appreciate HM, not true I should know, my party piece use to be shredding with one hand whilst chugging a litre of cidre. I had an Ibanez Destroyer II (still have it but it is neglected) with a DiMarzio super distortion pick up in bridge position. Real loud it sounded like Randy Rhoads (pre compression and EQ, the raw sound on the tribute album).
2. I would not like a guitar with a Jerez style set up. Wrong but I do not want to ONLY have a guitar like this.
3. I would presume to criticise a player whose playing is working, no I critise too much but only when I think something isn't working. I watched that Tomatito video that was posted of him playing Pas la pimpi and liked very much the sound and recording style. Is this the sound you are talking about? If so let me correct you. I love it, would I tell him to play differently no I wouldn't. Would I want this guitar YES, could I afford it NO, would I want it as my ONLY guitar, no I do not think that I could play slow Bach well on it, maybe some people could but not me.
4. You seemed to have forgotten,although I have not, the thread about hybrid guitars of which you were a substantial contributor. If I had mentioned that I could only afford one guitar and that that guitar would need to be a hybrid (actually that is what I did ) would you still have made some prejudiced ( but terribly 'hip') assumtions to allow you to incorrectly interpret the rest of what I had said ? I want to know where I can try one out here in scotland -or London- I am still hoping for positive advice on this.
5. I spend my whole life playing dolce. Nope.
6. Perhaps most crucially you seem to have assumed that drunken logic is terribly witty. Sorry no.Whatever is frustrating you in you real life or whoever your imaginary image of me ( clearly you haven't the foggiest idea who I actually am ) resembles (maybe a small minded violin teacher?) I am not to blame.
I deserve an apology. BE A MAN. And if you can't... at least notice that the prejudice is all yours.
Whatever I say is transformed by YOUR prejudice to suit your ends (and what noble ends ). Your are tacking on whole levels of flagrant untruth to what I say purely to make it risible. Instead of responding to what you WANT me to mean why not try and work out what I actually DO mean before attacking me, and if you have a point I'll try and take it on the chin (unfortunately I cant do this now because you have been so TOTALLY in error ). And next time you attack me ENJOY it for what it is, it is pointing at the new kid and saying 'he smells', the other kids will love you for it, some (most?) will believe I smell. At least when Koella does this he knows what he is doing.
Anders you know an awful lot, you are a fine craftsman and I have heard nothing but praise for your guitars. I am certain that I would be proud to own one, if it pleased you then there would be much of worth in it. You have wide ranging tastes in music and are clear and aritculate, your posts are generally well considered and enlightening. I am certain that on any subject over a beer you could entertain and delight me with your company. I am sorry that I have responded so vigorously today but I really have had more than enough of this sh@t from people here and am really dissapointed to find it coming from YOU. Your post was out of character and more worryingly your target was predictable . People often don't get me and that is my fault, I am a poor diplomat and use a style of prose which many peopl object to, also I have no talent for jumping on bandwagons. But I get really tired of people trying to convince me that their errors are more valid than reality. I am tired of people thumbing their noses at me from the bandwagon.
Yours FAITHFULLY
D
PS Please accept my apologies Bahen for obscuring the purpose of your thread. 
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Date Nov. 17 2007 16:59:37
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