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"The farruca by Sabicas is the essence"?
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Doog
Posts: 59
Joined: Sep. 17 2007
From: Tennessee
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 RE: "The farruca by Sabicas is ... (in reply to Adam)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ramparts
I found an interesting quote in this interview with Santiago Lara:
quote:
In a recent interview, Cañizares said he recommended young people to get to know the sources better...
We have different references. He’s worked with Paco de Lucía, who’s an immediate reference. They’ve overcome their predecessors, so they’re our reference. And then there’s the interest for the accompanying group. I know very well that the farruca by Sabicas is the essence.
Interview
I find that perplexing, and interesting...anyone have an idea what he means by that?
quote:
"he recommended young people to get to know the sources better..."
The sources are the flamenco greats that preceded us. From way back: Ramon Montoya, Javier Molina, Nino Ricardo, Monolo de Huelva, Melchor de Marchena, and Sabicas. These are the supremely talented artists that preceded Paco de Lucia, Manolo Sanlucar, Tomatito, Vicente Amigo, Gerardo Nunez, and other more 'modern' flamenco guitarists.
"We have different references. He’s worked with Paco de Lucía, who’s an immediate reference. They’ve overcome their predecessors, so they’re our reference."
References = sources, i.e., our predecessors. Paco, et. al., have "overcome" their predecessors by taking flamenco artistry to the next level. So now Paco, et. al., are our reference [immediate source] just as the above mentioned greats were Paco, et. al.'s reference [immediate source/or resource].
"And then there’s the interest for the accompanying group. I know very well that the farruca by Sabicas is the essence."
I am not sure why he connected Sabicas and the Farruca in particular. However, Sabicas certainly embodied the essence of flamenco in everything that he played. He was a supreme accompanist of the cante and baile and was dedicated to always maintaining compas. As a soloist, he was uniquely outstanding and talented.
This is my take on your referenced quote. I hope it helps you.
Doog
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Date Nov. 4 2007 6:05:21
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John O.
Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany
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RE: "The farruca by Sabicas is ... (in reply to Doitsujin)
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The farruca by Sabicas is rhythmically and melodically very very clear, each falseta from beginning to end. Beautiful, expressive and inspiring, but not too flashy. I assume he means this is the style many accompanying guitarists like playing most. Not sure though, I could just imagine this being the case.
Doit, I do see where you're coming from. You can't blame them for using advertising to their advantage though, it's done everywhere. If they suck, they would never sell millions of records or be sold out every night just because they played with Paco or Manolo 1-2 times, it's really only a way to get the name out - if they're no good it's more to their disadvantage, really.
As far as the Spanish/non-Spanish thing goes, I've experienced Germans coming up to me and speaking Spanish just because we're in a flamenco school. Really don't get it  I guess some people get into "Spanish Mode" and can't help it.
The thing with the name, I don't know. If somebody gets a Spanish name and ends up becoming more famous with that name, it's best to keep it. Basically when you get on stage you're an entertainer and if the Spanish name is part of the package ... I admit I sometimes think it's a bit silly, but I don't judge it.
The singer in my group has a Spanish name and in my opinion deserves it. Not necessarily because of how good she is (though she dances and sings very well), it just fits the personality, she's very flamenco. Her Spanish jaleos are so authentic - I've almost fallen off my chair a couple of times 
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Date Nov. 4 2007 13:52:07
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: "The farruca by Sabicas is ... (in reply to Adam)
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Apart from the name thing there is a thing like "flamenco=spanish", or what Doitsujin mentioned with the category for "best non-spanish" guitarist. It has different variations like "only spanish people can play flamenco", meaning they do it better and "only spanish should play flamenco", meaning that flamenco "belongs" to them/their culture (as if it was property or something; its just music that can be done everywhere where flamencos come together. Music has no nationality which is good.).
The real funny, or not so funny thing is, there are spanish AND non-spanish people saying almost the same thing. A non-spanish "racist" (just to keep the terminology) would mean it negatively (inferior culture), a spanish would mean it positive. Maybe these people dont want to be racists or dont realize that they make racist thoughts.
The interview with Juan Carmona tells more than words can express. It is a shame for the flamenco scene of spain if they disrespect such a great player like him only because hes non-spanish.
Yes Spain is geographically the place with the most and probably best flamenco, but that doesnt mean that anybody on the world could not do it. It is a question of how much means to learn you have. When you have 20 top guitarists, singers and dancers around you, it is no wonder that you develop faster... THAT is the reason why there are many good guitarists in spain.
About giving non-spanish names... it IS a difference if they do it because they cant pronounce it, or because they just dont care about your name because its non-spanish. If you already changed your name to a spanish one and introduce to everybody with that name than its obviously ok.
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Date Nov. 4 2007 19:52:34
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: "The farruca by Sabicas is ... (in reply to Adam)
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Hm my comment was lost over the internet and i didnt copy it. Just a few notes i remember:
Romerito, i dont know why you feel offended. Im not saying about cultures, or saying people should not cross cultures. Im just against the determination "culture (or race, or nationality) makes people". Besides cultures should meet at "eyeheight", means no culture should look down or up on other. It is likewise a prejudice to say flamenco is music of lazy giypsies as it is to say it is something mystical that only the hands of an Gitano(tm) can reveal. And dont get me wrong i dont want to prohibit adapting to a culture.
Oh and because of the "probably"; i just used the word to not judge over other peoples tastes where or what is the "best" flamenco. It is my opinion that it is spain, but it doesnt have to be another ones opinion.
Koella, language is other than music a matter of state or nationality. You cant decide to speak spanish in Holland, you have to get through the day and you could even get problems with the authorities of state. Good example: the basques in spain. So i think your ironic comparison doesnt hit the nail. But you can pick up flamenco and the only thing limiting you is the wideness of your flamenco scene. Well maybe i am thinking too much about it, but it just bothers me. :-/
Yeah i have to admit i would like to be in spain, but not because im horny for the culture, but because im horny for flamenco. Maybe horny is not the exact word, but you know what im saying?
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Date Nov. 5 2007 0:40:56
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Ricardo
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: "The farruca by Sabicas is ... (in reply to XXX)
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Doit has also a good point about that guiri guitarist award. Like, what if a guiri is one day the best in flamenco guitar, like the payo is today. Does that mean he can win TWICE??? In other words, it is obvious the Spaniards recognize the guiri power, and out of fear have tried to keep it some how separate from the pure blood awards.
But Romerito's point is good too. The beauty of studying cultures, or what defines them, is what they as a group have for themselves, what is very natural to them. Like and Indian from the Andes playing those wood flutes (those people have BIGGER lungs for a reason) or a group of shoalin monks doing their kung fu, or some Spanish gypsies doing their flamenco, or French gypsies doing their "hot jazz". From the point of view of culture, it is beautifull to recognize that purity and natural ability.
But just so you know, the world is getting so small, even some Indians from the Andes now recognize some Japanese guys that play Charango better and very "pure" than anybody. And sure the Japanese guys dress up in traditional andes gear and play the part, but it is out of respect. So sure the same can happen to flamenco. Making a "foreignor" award is a way to delay the inevitable.
Oh yeah, Sabicas was non andaluz for sure, and I dont' care WHERE he was born, he was 100% NEW YORKER, USA.
Ricardo
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Date Nov. 5 2007 1:04:49
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hassurbanipal
Posts: 191
Joined: Jul. 14 2006
From: belgium
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RE: "The farruca by Sabicas is ... (in reply to Adam)
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Let us simply say,
the music comes from flanders, belgium.
we are flamenco's and we even speak flamenco, yes we do....
so, the spaniards stole our music and we're the only ones who can or may play this music....
so don't care where sabicas is from, he was not allowed to play flamenco... 
even if he studied here, he wasn ot born in belgium with such a name.
(and ps; ricardo, hot jazz is also from belgium, django reinhardt was born here, so even the french are not allowed to play it,
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Date Nov. 5 2007 13:23:38
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