Tio Sabas Technique

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Tio Sabas Technique

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Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

Tio Sabas Technique

Hey everyone

I'm sure most are familiar with Tio Sabas by Pdl. Is this Tarranta or Granadina??
Also there is a part with a rasgueado (see pic below) it looks like a four stroke but it's strange with upstroke and two downstrokes and upstroke again.
How do you play that?
If anyone plays this would appreciate any pointers.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 5 2007 15:16:47

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 5 2007 15:47:29

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Thanks man. So how about that part in measure 6 and 7, I can't believe how fast paco plays those arpegios. Oh and what about the tremolo, how do you make it flow when 3 notes of the qudruplet melody are played on 1 string and the last note is on another????

Man that Paco is good, pisses me off

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2007 22:06:31

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 0:01:39

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Guest)

Those Paco arpeggios aren't arpeggios at all. The first time you hear them they hit you in the stomach!! They ascend like an arpeggio but descend in picado at an incredible velocity. Its ironic that Pacos arpeggio is really picado and Gerados picado is really arpeggio. I guess they both just developed thier strongest techniques.
Anyway I am pretty sure this is the fingering. I could never get it but then I'm not paco or ever likely to be. However I am not 100 per cent sure that the fingering is correct either. This is my version. If anyone thinks its is wrong, can they be kind enough to tell us the correct fingering for this (arpeggio) technique

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 13:35:56

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 14:40:52

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Bogdan1980)

That looks right to me. But I just don't see how this is picado. The C note on the third string (descending part) is the end of a regular arpeggio, and then the B note on the fourth string is the beginning of another short arpeggio "mip".

At least that's how it seams reasonable and that's how I worked on it. Although if the fingering provided is not what Paco uses I can see how this could be a picado...but that kind of picado is "insulting" to normal people like myself who CAN'T DO IT

Shroomy, I know it's a tough piece but come on, you have to challenge yourself. ANd it's a tarranta so you don't have to stick to the tempo Paco used.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 14:42:03

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Guest)

I can only do the falseta including the falseta, even that's been a while ago. I've seen a lot of people do this arpeggio/picado technique though. It was taught at Sanlucar's course in Cordoba, I think? If I got it right, Paco didn't create it but Canizares. Very good exercise, but I never got it down clean enough full speed.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 14:49:21

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 15:19:20

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bogdan1980

The C note on the third string (descending part) is the end of a regular arpeggio, and then the B note on the fourth string is the beginning of another short arpeggio "mip".

I know exactly what you mean. I thought it must be done that way too and logically it makes sense to plant your fingers in place and then do a mini arpeggio at the end to get the last 3 notes

BUT.......

Thats not what Paco does. If you do that technique you dont get than spine chilling sound that Paco gets. His picado is so fast, it sounds like arpeggio. I remember watching him do it up close and nearly fell off the chair. That technique put me off learning any of that piece including the beautiful tremelo section!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 15:22:06

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Wow, Pimientito, that's depressing. I was clinging to the hope that it actually wasn't picado and it was doable. Well, now I have to quit the job and just practice those three chords using picado....damn

.

By the way, I was hoping to find a video on youtube of him playing it. I don't think it's availbale. Did you see it live or on some DVD?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 15:53:20

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 17:16:47

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Lionel, I think I mentioned before, that I look at Paco's stuff (and Amigo's pieces) as coherent compositions and I select them based on their musical qualities...I don't necessarily see them simply as "flamenco" falsetas. Since classical music is what I always played, I pick some of these pieces just like I would a classical piece. This may be a wrong approach. Don't get me wrong I want to get all flamenco technique under my belt, but I also want to work toward completing a stand alone interesting musical piece. Sabicas and especially Juan Martin often seem like collection of falsetas to me, exercises. There is nothing wrong with those but it's one thing to play them and practice and another thing to learn them, memorize them.

I think there is no need to memorize an exercise because you can read it (if you read a sheet, or if you have a tab). On the other hand Tio Sabas or Barrio gives you a benchmark, a goal. It will take a while to get there but it's much more interesting to work on them than on JM's alegrias. And then when you encounter something like this picado in Tio Sabas, you get swamped and do some related exercises and practice until you get it right.

I do however agree with you that it is important to understand what techniques are involved in these pieces...so you're not getting lost in fingerings and positions. That's why we need to get together and analyze Barrio.

As far as Tio Sabas, these picados are tough, but what about that tremolo?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 19:40:21

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 21:35:14

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Oh I know that, it's just really hard to make it a continuous flow while jumping to another string.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2007 22:35:39

bassemsabry

Posts: 1
Joined: Jun. 5 2010

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Hey! Sorry for the obvious question :) Does anyone have the tab here? :) Thanks

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 5 2010 14:59:41

frasco

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 6 2010 3:37:55

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pimientito

Those Paco arpeggios aren't arpeggios at all. The first time you hear them they hit you in the stomach!! They ascend like an arpeggio but descend in picado at an incredible velocity. Its ironic that Pacos arpeggio is really picado and Gerados picado is really arpeggio. I guess they both just developed thier strongest techniques.
Anyway I am pretty sure this is the fingering. I could never get it but then I'm not paco or ever likely to be. However I am not 100 per cent sure that the fingering is correct either. This is my version. If anyone thinks its is wrong, can they be kind enough to tell us the correct fingering for this (arpeggio) technique

Is it at 1:00 in this video? That mimi part is played tirando or apoyando? It looks like he's playing picado only on treble strings. So the tab above is not correct?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 23 2022 16:31:36

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Bogdan1980)

At :55 and here at 1:00

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2022 14:25:34

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Ricardo)

I love it how he messes up at 1:33 in the second video (at least I hear that way) but then fixes it right away...The world will not see anyone like him...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 25 2022 17:29:35

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to devilhand)

I was taught that fingering but tirando all the way (except for p). The key was to play the left hand as you would a scale, removing the finger as soon as the note is played, instead of letting it ring. No idea whether that's correct though. My teacher had decent results doing it that way, but I never really practised it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2022 4:46:48

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

I was taught that fingering but tirando all the way (except for p). The key was to play the left hand as you would a scale, removing the finger as soon as the note is played, instead of letting it ring. No idea whether that's correct though. My teacher had decent results doing it that way, but I never really practised it.

The concept of “sweep picking” on electric guitar is similar for the left hand so the pick can glide across the strings. In that sense a well coordinated arrastre (drag the ring finger across all 6) should work fine for this.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2022 14:38:28

devilhand

Posts: 1598
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

I was taught that fingering but tirando all the way (except for p).

I looked at his right hand again. It must be tirando because of the way it sounds. Looks like the last note is a thumb free stroke as well. I'm gonna practice it and see what happens.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2022 20:17:04

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Ricardo)

Makes sense. I'd have to work on it. For whatever reason it feels a lot more difficult to coordinate with arrastre than with using different fingers.

BTW, not really related, but it reminded me of people playing chromatic runs with a single finger of the left hand. For instance Jerome Mouffe around 1:50 here:

Is there a name for that? Left-hand works the same as glissando but since each note is played separately... Pretty crazy level of coordination. Well for me anyway.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2022 20:46:15

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1674
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Bogdan1980)

I'm not sure I understand this discussion, but I think you all may be talking about the technique were you start an arpeggio ascending with free strokes and then complete it by dragging the "a" fingernail back (descending). Tarantas.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2022 20:46:37

devilhand

Posts: 1598
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RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

Left-hand works the same as glissando but since each note is played separately... Pretty crazy level of coordination. Well for me anyway.

To me it's easier.

You want to see crazy level of coordination? Here you go. It's ami tirando at 4:00.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 26 2022 21:15:17

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pimientito

Those Paco arpeggios aren't arpeggios at all. The first time you hear them they hit you in the stomach!! They ascend like an arpeggio but descend in picado at an incredible velocity. Its ironic that Pacos arpeggio is really picado and Gerados picado is really arpeggio. I guess they both just developed thier strongest techniques.
Anyway I am pretty sure this is the fingering. I could never get it but then I'm not paco or ever likely to be. However I am not 100 per cent sure that the fingering is correct either. This is my version. If anyone thinks its is wrong, can they be kind enough to tell us the correct fingering for this (arpeggio) technique

There is a way to optimize the left-hand fingering to make it easier to do fast. If you use finger 2 (instead of 3) on string 5, you can keep LH fingers 2 (on string 5) and 3 (on string 2) anchored in place and only have to move fingers 1 and 4 but with time to do so as each is two strings apart. Finger 1 frets string 6 then while playing strings 5 and 4 it moves to string 4 wheer it is needed next. Similarly, LH finger 4 plays string 4 and 1 with time to move to string 1 while playing strings 3 and 2. And vice versa during the arrastre from 1 to 6.

For the first arpeggio /sweep from 7th position that is not pictured, the LH fingering sequence is 1, 3, 4, 1, 2, 4 and back and the anchoring in place can be done this time with LH finger 3 on string 5 and finger 2 on string 2. The rest is the same.

EDIT: if you are worried about ringing sounds from the anchored fingers, just keep them anchored but reduce the pressure a bit to mute their strings after the stroke.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2022 4:03:38

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to kitarist)

Here's Ramzi practising the way I was taught how to do it:

If this is indeed the idea behind it, then anchoring a finger would defeat the purpose, since the whole concept is to mute the string by lifting the left hand finger as soon as the note is played.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2022 4:36:45

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

If this is indeed the idea behind it, then anchoring a finger would defeat the purpose, since the whole concept is to mute the string by lifting the left hand finger as soon as the note is played.

I edited above - you just reduce pressure to mute after stroke as needed, but still keep the two fingers "anchored" in place - meaning they do not fly around the fretboard as the other technique requires - so I think it is easier to learn to do faster. It was just an idea I had yesterday as I was trying this out.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2022 18:26:37

Piwin

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Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Tio Sabas Technique (in reply to kitarist)

Makes sense.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2022 19:32:38