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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 17:02:30

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Guest)

this is great man, keep going

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 18:09:42

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 18:12:15

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 18:14:15

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Guest)

Since you said it's similar to alegrias, why then I can't seam to get the 12 count right on Barrio La VIna, especilly the intro?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 18:16:16

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Guest)

[EDIT Im sorry, I thought these are pages from the book you are writing on. If you just wanna show some basic stuff for the foros, please ignore my following post. Sorry. If so, I think its helpfull for many players, and thanks for shareing]

Thank you for showing this. If you want some thoughts, I would like to offer some ideas for improvement.

It looks intersting and its easy to understand. Thats very good. I saw some books where they made it to complicated.

I would use a clearer font. And I wouldnt write in italic letters. It exhauts very much to decifer these numbers in the tab. I think if the text and examples are good, its shurely interesting enough without stylish fonts. I think arial or times new roman would be very good and of course it looks more serious I think.

The second point is just a minor thing. I would write the spanish words with the accent. f.e. SOLEÁ instead of SOLEA or COMPÁS instead of COMPAS.

And I would write the arrows for strokdirections or maybe the fingers which one shoud use also in the tab. If its for beginners, they wouldnt understand how to play these chords.

Well, thank you very much for the pages! I think its quite interesting! Im waiting for more!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 20:12:39

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 20:51:22

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Guest)

romerito

i'd like to hear how sabicas plays that falseta. can you name a recording that has it?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 21:36:57

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Guest)

Romerito

Well I'm trying to go through the compas of basic forms (Solea, Buleria, Alegrias, Fandango). I have a huge gap in knowledge here. And I'm trying to get people here on the forum to explain the counts and how it all works. This thread started in general section under solea, there is also continuation in audio section. I posted some exerpts from PDL's pieces which I know are far too advanced to learn by.

ButI think with everyone's and especially Florian's and your help I'm getting the count; I've been listening to soleares I have and counting through them.
It is my understanding that Alegrias follows the same count. I'm finishing work on Barrio La Vina right now, and I'm trying to count through it, it's not coming together for some reason, especially here in the beginning. I'll attach Barrio , below. How do you count there? I'm interested in the first 12-16 measures.

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 21:42:18

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 21:53:49

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Guest)

ROmerito

Wow man, you actually went through the trouble and explained Gitanos, thanks for taking time and going through the trouble, this is very helpful.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 22:01:37

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Bogdan1980)

Bogdan I think some of the guys have been really helpful to us trying to understand this compas better. They have really put themselves out.

Thank you guys - this is a real strength of the Foro.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 22:27:04

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Guest)

Thanks romerito! Ah, it's on bronce gitano... should have guessed. I'll try playing it tomorrow, looks like a good thumb exercize.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 27 2007 23:42:38

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

It is my understanding that Alegrias follows the same count. I'm finishing work on Barrio La Vina right now, and I'm trying to count through it, it's not coming together for some reason, especially here in the beginning. I'll attach Barrio , below. How do you count there? I'm interested in the first 12-16 measures.

Very astute. Understand that Romerito is starting you off with easy cuadrao examples, and now you are jumping to Paco's advanced compositions. I replied in general to this, but you keep jumping around so here again. The 5th and 6th measures are a HALF COMPAS. You would impose the feeling of counts 7,8,9 10, (11 12) to those two measures. But understand by imposing the count, be it 12 counts or 6 counts, you are doing something from outside to the music. To get INSIDE paco's mind, understand he is not thinking 12's or half compases at all. It is just the phrasing of the music.

I don't teach counting to 12 until the student can actually PLAY in rhythm that simple phrase like Romerito described. The 12 is and after thought, a way to analyze AFTER the fact. first you must beable to play in tempo, and simply play in time with the right accents and feeling. Later you can understand counting , if you must, ONLY to interact with a dancer or play for a dance class, where the numbers are not just mathematics, but a map to say "we are HERE, so where are YOU?".

My advice is to work with a metronome, and just start srumming in rhythm, 3 beats, 4 chords, until you get the feeling inside. Over and over. Then a simple base line melody, ABD, CEG, FEF, E arpegio.

You can adhere to the score of Paco as written and use your ears to guide you. But get away from the "law of 12" if you can, because it is not really in the minds of the artists that created the music.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2007 19:39:10

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Guest)

Well this thread started in one place and then went everywhere. Thanks for the explanation. Well, as I said before, I don't seem to have problems staying with the beat. I've been playing classical with a long time and played with a metrnonome in the beginning. Although now I follow the beat pretty well and don't use it.

I have some rhythm tracks for solea from FLorian I think here on the forum. When I play along I also don't seam to have a problem with the beat. I guess, what I'm after is to know what's going on behind it all. Like, why is there this specific cierre in most palos that always follows amelodic pattern and why is it where it is?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2007 21:15:32

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Bogdan1980)

quote:

Like, why is there this specific cierre in most palos

It is just the nature of flamenco rhythms...they close or end not on the head beat of the phrase, but before. They leave a "breath" before picking up again. It is a rhythmic thing, not a melodic thing, though, you CAN learn that phrase from a specific melody. But cierres can be lead by footwork and palmas alone. Getting familiar with the basic rhythmic phrases, like drum rudiments, over time you just sense the cierre is coming. And when improvising, there are always going to be "fake out"s where it does not close when you expect it. That is the fun of flamenco rhythms.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2007 21:48:08

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Guest)

I know everyone knows this, but some guys who buy your book might not-you might want to add that the cierre in the sabicas falseta is not played all with thumb.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 29 2007 22:29:34

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Solea Analysis(Page 1 of 5) (in reply to Guest)

romerito,

i was wondering, would you like to share some of the material from your book for the foro realbook?

its ok if you don't, i can understand that, but i'd make it a separate chapter with all credits to you, like as a forward to the book.

take some time, consider... lol

no pressure, thanks for posting this stuff man!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2008 10:37:36