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Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar)   You are logged in as Guest
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JDiaz

 

Posts: 244
Joined: Apr. 20 2007
 

Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) 

so, what do you think?

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 21:59:52
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

Flamenco-wise it can offer nothing to any member here, except one VERY important thing...

TIMING!

cheers,

Ron

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 22:08:22
 
JasonM

Posts: 1784
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

That hurt my ears. I can not believe the crowd they have. And i'll bet if they started playing bulerias all those people would leave.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 22:30:41
 
JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM
i'll bet if they started playing bulerias all those people would leave.


This is most certainly true.

I remember when Ottmar Liebert first surfaced we had a lot of similar discussions. In the end Ottmar helped flamenco somewhat simply by introducing the word. He also hurt it a little bit too, by associating the word with something that has little to do with it.

J

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 22:45:09

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

Ah, stop being a bunch of "Flamenco-Fags". Ron, you've met Gabriela, have you not? And was she not a nice person? And what about her Rasgueados? Are they not better than most of the Nuevo-Flamenco trash that that fills the shelves of the "Flamenco Section" at HMV? These guys DON'T CLAIM TO BE FLAMENCO (and in fact go to great lengths to tell their audiences this). Some people really need to learn to deal with that, and accept them for what they are.

Btw: this thread should really be in the OFF TOPIC section, and why waste time arguing about something that doesn't even CLAIM OR PRETEND to be Flamenco???!!!

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 22:50:40
 
Arash

Posts: 4462
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

The only thing which makes me sad and which hurts me when i see such videos is simply the fact that in real Flamenco music we only have few (like Paco) who became famous but we have many who would derserve it.

It is not a discussion if this is flamenco or not.

I think most of you agree.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 22:59:46

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to Arash

quote:

The only thing which makes me sad and which hurts me when i see such videos is simply the fact that in real Flamenco music we only have few (like Paco) who became famous but we have many who would derserve it.

It is not a discussion if this is flamenco or not.

I think most of you agree.


So what you're complaining about is that "Flamenco guitarists are not FAMOUS enough, whilst guitarists in other genres are"?

well, welcome to the real world. Flamenco is NOT about fame, now is it?!

No offense amigos... I like the puro stuff too. But this "bitching" about how other genres are "more famous/better payed/get layed more often/etc/etc" is just childish.

We all need to accept the fact that there is plenty of room for variety in the world of music. And a world where Flamenco is THE ONLY valid form of music is not one in which I would wish to live.

But I think all this was said in the last thread about Rodrigo Y Gabriela.

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 23:08:22
 
Arash

Posts: 4462
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

Music is like politics. Only few people understand what is really going on. (and i am not only talking about flamenco. Just turn on MTV and you understand what i mean). Thats what makes me sad....

I know that flamenco is not about fame.....

ahh...forget it...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 23:14:46
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

Well, if you bash a group you need to give a reason for it. Its ok to do this with Ottmar and such guys because he is a flamingo fake. But Rodrigo y Gabriela dont seem to have such an attitude.

Yes they may be more famous than Paco, SO WHAT? The fact that they are more famous only shows that more people like THEIR stuff than Pacos stuff. Of course that is a bit said, coz in Pacos music there is more to discover. But actually i dont really care what other people hear. Its enough if YOU enjoy what you hear. Joy in the music, man.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 23:29:08

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
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RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

YAY!! Another R n G thread!!

AY! They are so fantastico! Viva Metallica!

Love that thin, cardboard tone!! Muy Flamingo!! OLE'

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 23:35:19

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to XXX

quote:

Well, if you bash a group you need to give a reason for it. Its ok to do this with Ottmar and such guys because he is a flamingo fake. But Rodrigo y Gabriela dont seem to have such an attitude.

Yes they may be more famous than Paco, SO WHAT? The fact that they are more famous only shows that more people like THEIR stuff than Pacos stuff. Of course that is a bit said, coz in Pacos music there is more to discover. But actually i dont really care what other people hear. Its enough if YOU enjoy what you hear. Joy in the music, man.


Yes, thats what I was trying to say. Obviously I spend more time listening to PDL than Rodrigo Y Gabriela, but I don't begrudge Rod and Gab for being successful, and I don't belittle their fans for liking them.

No offense, Arash... I understand what you were trying to say. But I just get tired of Flamencos bashing other genres. Live and let live, I say...

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 23:40:18
 
Arash

Posts: 4462
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

i didnt bash them!

It is just that each time i become dissapointed when i compare the crowd that such groups have to those from much better "unknown" guitarists or musicians.

Each time i feel that something unfair is going on.

Yeah for me it is enough that i enjoy what i hear, but this is a feeling that i automatically get.

I have nothing against this Duo!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 23:41:53
 
Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to Arash

Very well said JBASHORUN.

I enjoy the music they put out much more than hearing someone play say a Paco or Sabicas piece. I admire the creativity and respecy their musicianship very much. To any who lessens what they are doing as well as what Otmar- To them I say let me hear you write (Create like a musician) a melody rather than merely play(Like a trained monkey) a piece by another musician. I believe that when Sabicas told PDL that he should play his own pieces rather than Nino Ricardos, he was saying " Man let me hear some of your music I've heard that stuff before.

I admire those on this forum like Ricardo, Florian and Edgar a great deal, because of their CREATIVITY and the great love for MUSIC that is shown thru their compositions. I never felt like they were out to impress as I do with others.

To all the critics out there I challenge you to create something along the lines of Rodreigo & Gabriela, if you think its so inferior- it must be easy as well, so go on.

I am not a huge fan of Otmar's music, but I do have alot of respect for him as a musician, and I did hear him play a Bulerias once and yes he can play.

Simply put JasonM and JDiaz people are enjoying Rodrigo & Gabriela's music, and those same people have no clue that either one of you exist, maybe its time they did, so why not save their audience from and i quote JasonM "That hurt my ears" from that much pain and play them your music.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2007 23:42:54
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to Arash

@Bik: Yes thats true you didnt bash them. But you said something different i want to quote it:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bikhiyal

Yeah for me it is enough that i enjoy what i hear


Sorry this is simply not correct because two lines above you judge them not only if you like it or not, but you say they are too famous compared to their skills. The question is: why does it bother you? I mean, you cannot change the tastes of people, they have to develop them themselves. I dont like this piece either, it doesnt give me musically. But to say this is unfair is not true. Who says that there is a fairness in music? There are people hearing even worse things than this here. You live in Germany, you should know what im talking about . You know Sido?

I agree with you, that many people have poor tastes coz they are not interested in developing them. There are enough people who dont listen to music at all. But is that really "our" problem?

@JB: I have nothing against bashing if its well reasoned.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 0:01:25
 
Arash

Posts: 4462
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

@Rain
Man , i hate this "Do it better - or shut up" comments.
Did i or Jason say that we are better than this Duo or more creative???
I just COMPARED THEM and their Popularity WITH OTHER GOOD MUSICIANS
(not me or other Noobs!). Thats it.

@Deniz

Yes i understand what you mean.
Maybe it is just because of the huge passion which i have created for flamenco music that makes me wish that there should be more "fairness".

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 0:12:11
 
JDiaz

 

Posts: 244
Joined: Apr. 20 2007
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

I knew i'd get quite a discussion going. ha, ya prob should of put it in the off topic section.
I just came across this group today. From first impression, i thought they were ok... nothing special. Pretty simple and easy going music that the non-music masses will love.
I personally don't really prefer acoustic playing that much but i think they are good at what they do. I just think i would get bored quickly after listening to a few of their songs, maybe im wrong. But i don't think it's very inspiring style of music. It's just to plain for me compared to Flamenco. I guess it just depends on the taste of music then. They are of course not FLAMENCO, so let's not get into an argument about if they are or not;)

So, ya I just wanted to see what you thought about them since it has to do with guitar!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 0:30:46
 
JDiaz

 

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RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to Arash

Ya, it's too bad that better unknown artists dont get the publicity or attention. I wonder why that is? It's like in mainstream rap, that's all most people know and less talented rappers strive and get rich and produce garbage that gives a bad image to rap music while very talented and real lyricists are working their asses off trying to make ends meet and they don't get huge crowds and contracts. But, i guess that's just how it goes in life. Not everone can get big and some deserve their fame and others don't. I think the most important thing is that artists stay true to themselves! It's just refreshing to find unkown artists once in a while who have a lot of talent and potential!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 0:40:20

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

Never mind, amigos... lets not argue over Non-Flamenco. Lets end this by haviing a listen to Pitingo's great Alegrias:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/The_BEST_alegrias_EVER%3F%21/m_67370/p_1/tmode_1/smode_1/tm.htm

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 0:55:44
 
JDiaz

 

Posts: 244
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RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JBASHORUN

haha good idea!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 0:56:56
 
JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

Pitingo's Alegrias is beautiful. Just the thing to help us put things in perspective.
And several cuts on his record borrow from other styles of music. Do the communities that contain those styles complain about Pitingo degrading them with his fusion. No.
Flamenco has been borrowing from other cultures from the very beginings of its existence, but when another culture or style of music borrows from flamenco a debate is started in which flamencos seem to get overly defensive as if someone is trying to take something away from them. R&G don't call themselves flamencos. They are a couple of young musicians that hit the musical lottery. We as practitioners of flamenco can relax in the fact that flamenco will survive Ottmar, R&G and all of the Neuvo Flamenco gang. I have all the reason in the world to be upset. Bolero Records agreed to sign me and distribute my CD only if I agreed to remove a Rondeña, Fandangos, Solea and The infamous Eb Bulerias that has been viewed 150,000 times on YouTube.com (thanks to Bikhiyal for posting that). I had to replace them with......you guessed it......Rumbas. At least I was able to sneak in a Colombianas disguised as a Rumba. I wish I didn't have to make that choice, but my family has benefitted from the decision to do it. Chuscales had to make the same decision and so did Pedro Cortes. We made that decision as a result of being responsible parents. Regardless, flamenco continues to be flamenco and it grows and gains new followers. Please, lets let others borrow from flamenco without it making us question ourselves. If you like it, buy it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Simple Solution. Vote with your wallet.

_____________________________

http://www.Flamenco-Lessons.com/
http://www.CaminosFlamencos.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/Bikhiyal
http://flamenco-lessons.blogspot.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 2:48:55
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13292
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JasonMcGuire

quote:

At least I was able to sneak in a Colombianas disguised as a Rumba. I wish I didn't have to make that choice, but my family has benefitted from the decision to do it. Chuscales had to make the same decision and so did Pedro Cortes. We made that decision as a result of being responsible parents. Regardless, flamenco continues to be flamenco and it grows and gains new followers. Please, lets let others borrow from flamenco without it making us question ourselves. If you like it, buy it. If you don't like don't buy it. Simple Solution. Vote with your wallet.


Wise and honest words. Glad to see you on the forum maestro! Welcome!

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 3:36:34
 
JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007
 

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to Ricardo

Hi Ricardo,
How was Nelly's show? My flamenco papa Pedro Cortes speaks very highly of you and from what I have seen on the net, I am very impressed with your playing. Your technique is fantastic and your sound is very flamenco. It is wonderful to see the next generation of American flamenco guitarists coming into their own. Keep up the great work.

Jason

_____________________________

http://www.Flamenco-Lessons.com/
http://www.CaminosFlamencos.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/Bikhiyal
http://flamenco-lessons.blogspot.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 4:29:12
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13292
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JasonMcGuire

quote:

Hi Ricardo,
How was Nelly's show? My flamenco papa Pedro Cortes speaks very highly of you and from what I have seen on the net, I am very impressed with your playing. Your technique is fantastic and your sound is very flamenco. It is wonderful to see the next generation of American flamenco guitarists coming into their own. Keep up the great work.


Neli's show was very good, lot of fun people to work with. As usual Pedro came up with some very challenging music for us to learn, and we had a short time to rehearse, but we pulled it off in the end. Thanks for your kind words! Looking forward to more posts from you!

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 8:18:02
 
Adam

Posts: 1155
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Philadelphia

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JDiaz

Mmm...well...coming from the only person on the forum who enjoys Ottmar's music.... .....I'd heard about these (my dad told me there was flamenco on Jimmy Kimmel Live, so I was intrigued). It doesn't look like anything really new--they're kinda like a new Strunz and Farah, no?--and I don't really think it's anything that special. A lot of technical dazzle, sure, but not my thing. Eh, but to each his own--and I'd dare say that this stuff is significantly better than most of the other music they're competing with on the charts, hehe...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 10:37:24
 
JasonM

Posts: 1784
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Rodrigo & Gabriela (Acoustic guitar) (in reply to JBASHORUN

quote:

No offense amigos... I like the puro stuff too. But this "bitching" about how other genres are "more famous/better payed/get layed more often/etc/etc" is just childish.


Hold on a second. You mean flamenco guitarist don't get layed as often? Well hell, I'm wasting my time then!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 15 2007 23:18:27
 
Adam

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 18 2007 9:22:56
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