black people

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black people

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koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

black people

I just wondered.
I was just watching the Joe Zawinul syndicate on youtube and admired his ( black ) bassplayer Richard Bona. So you don't think I'm a racist or something.

I don't know any black people playing flamenco, do you ?
Isn't that strange ?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 7 2007 23:02:51

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

quote:

So you don't think I'm a racist or something.

I don't know any negro playing flamenco, do you ?
Isn't that strange ?

That would be a very bad choice of words if you were in America Koella. Black or African American are the correct terms. Although my black friends prefer the word Black. Negro, is a racist term here in the States. However, the same word said or pronouned in Spanish is not. I think?? Anyway, since your in Holland, that term is probably not taken the way it is here so your probably ok.

To answer your question, I for one do not know of any playing. Although there is one very good singer from what I hear up in Washington DC. Ricardo knows him.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 3:40:34

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: black people (in reply to TANúñez)

Yeah it's the same in German. Funny though, the bad N-word in the US translates to "Bimbo" in Germany. For one person an empty-headed blonde, for another a racial slur...

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 7:40:02

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

Sorry I edited my post.

I still don't understand why they are not attracted to the art of flamenco.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 8:56:18

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

"Black" isn't really a clear term in this case. Besides the gypsies, who can have very dark skin, some of the influences of flamenco come from the Moors, which were from North Africa. The Arabs who came to Spain came more from the middle east than from the south though. Where white turns to brown or black is less the question, more the culture. Many Africans from the more Southern region went to South America (whether by choice or not), their musical influence actually went from there back across the Atlantic up to Spain in the 19th century when the guajira and other hybrids became popular.

But no, generally you can't make a guy in Rocawear a flamenco fan, if that's what you mean

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 9:21:16

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

There was a black guy on the Pena Flamenca de Londres course recently. He's still only learning, but he's obviously interested enough to attend the course. Perhaps he'll be out there playing one day

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 11:47:12

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

quote:

ORIGINAL: koella
I don't know any black people playing flamenco, do you ?
Isn't that strange ?

Miguel Bastide, a flamenco guitar player from Cuba living in Toronto with his Spanish wife carmen, a lovely couple. In Granada we have a bass player also from Cuba, Miguel Perez, who plays with the flamencos. I know several aficionados from the West Indies who live in London and what about Ruben Dantes, the flamenco percussionist played with Paco and brought the Cajón over from Peru.

Kate

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Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 11:50:27

el ted

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 13:16:42

andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: black people (in reply to el ted)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el ted

I'm black.

Only thing black 'bout you is pudding, Ted!
Pudding were so black, even t'white bits were black...

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¡este arbol tiene duende, cabron!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 14:03:17

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: black people (in reply to Kate)

quote:

Miguel Bastide, a flamenco guitar player from Cuba

FYI, Miguel de la Bastide is from Trinidad.

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 18:16:57

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: black people (in reply to Estevan)

Yep my mistake, I just checked his CD. Dunno why I thought Cuba.

Kate

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 18:24:47

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

Thank for the replies.
I really meant the black people from middle/south Africa or their descendants in the US.
So I didn't mean North Africans or black people from spanish talking countries. It's quite obvious they influenced ( or were influenced ) by flamenco.

Ah, who cares, I was just curious. Forget it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 18:26:35

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

Well I think a lot of descendants from the US may think it's just not FUNKY FRESH enough

Seriously though, look at US blacks dance, look at South Americans dance - the loose groove they have when they let go and shake it that white people just don't have. It just isn't like flamenco. Not better, not worse, just different. Flamenco isn't loose like that. If you look at a rumba or a guajira though you can see how the dancers can get those hips going - those are South American influenced though.

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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 19:52:03

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

Now that makes sense. I was stuck in the "guitar = flamenco" thing.
But of course you also have the dahhhhhhhncers (

) and the singers.

And the culture differerence like you pointed out.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 20:37:22

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: black people (in reply to John O.)

Yep,
That's about it..
I reckon black folks in general have enough of a cultural identity to draw on rather than having to dabble in other folks culture.
In fact it's mainly the white culture that seeks out the exotic to draw on musical inventiveness.
Eddie Lastra is a black member of this forum who is a good and enthusiastic player actually...
Depends on what attracts your musical brain as a person.

cheers

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A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2007 21:11:08

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: black people (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Eddie Lastra is a black member of this forum who is a good and enthusiastic player actually...
Depends on what attracts your musical brain as a person.

cheers

OMG! Eddie! when did you become black? The last time I saw you, you were Philipino. Now black? you gotta teach me how to do that.

Ron you silly boy

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www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 3:38:32

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: black people (in reply to TANúñez)

quote:

Ron you silly boy

LOL! Tom,
I got that impression from a couple of posts I read way back on the FT Forum.
(Hey where is Eddie anyway??)
So I guess Koella is right...there are no black members on the foro and maybe I'm right about the culture thing?

(BTW, black, here in the UK means Sub-Sahara African or Afro-American...)

cheers,

Ron

_____________________________

A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 12:20:32

Fitna A.

Posts: 36
Joined: Jun. 5 2007
From: The Netherlands

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

And what about female flamenco players

Are there some of them arround?
Of course the guitar is more played by male, no matter what genre, but a female playing (proffesional) flamencoguitar sounds very unnatural to me.

I realise that I don't even know dutch femine aficionado's

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 17:42:12

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: black people (in reply to Fitna A.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fitna A.
I realise that I don't even know dutch femine aficionado's

I do ! There's someone else here on the forum and I know two others in my town( dutch)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 17:48:10

Fitna A.

Posts: 36
Joined: Jun. 5 2007
From: The Netherlands

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

Good news! It means that I'm not alone

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 17:51:53

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: black people (in reply to Fitna A.)

You Dutch have nothing to complain about - you guys have an academy! (Paco Pena's)

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 17:59:55

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

Well, I'm 1/4 black if that counts... my father is 1/2 black and my grandfather is completely black. Interestingly my grandfather (from Nigeria) played guitar too, but it was mainly stuff from "his own culture". It sounds a bit controversial, but I'd say he was quite an "ethnocentric" man and so are many others in his position. I, however, like to keep an open mind and dip in and out of other cultures, partly becuase I'm from so many different places that I don't really have one culture of my own.

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 18:36:55

blanca

Posts: 58
Joined: Mar. 21 2007
From: The Netherlands

RE: black people (in reply to Fitna A.)

Hello, welcome on this foro Fitna. I'm a female aficionado in the Netherlands.
Nice to hear another dutch girl/woman playing flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 18:42:51

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to koella)

[Deleted by Admins]

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 19:17:34

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: black people (in reply to blanca)

Fitna,
So there you go...
On this forum alone there is ... blanca, El Craic, Romanza, buleria and Ailsa....
(sorry if I've left anyone out)

Amongst Flamenco non-guitar players there is..

Zata... (ex-professional singer resident in Spain, now a writer and broadcaster on Flamenco).

Kate (living in Granada with her partner and together running a recording studio there. As well as recording and producing a CD of Taller de Compás, a local young gitano band and touring with them in the USA, they recorded and produced ace guitarist's Emilio Maya's album)

That's all that springs to mind at the moment, so don't feel all alone there chica!

cheers,

Ron

(Hey why don't all you chicas get together for a week-long "Flamenco Hen Night" in Andalucia?

)

_____________________________

A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 21:09:09

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: black people (in reply to Ron.M)

I've met two other girls learning to play here in London - there are probably more, just haven't met them yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

(Hey why don't all you chicas get together for a week-long "Flamenco Hen Night" in Andalucia? )

Great idea Ron! We flamencas know how to party

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 22:30:17

Fitna A.

Posts: 36
Joined: Jun. 5 2007
From: The Netherlands

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

For women it's legal to complain and discuss about nails in public without the risk to be insulted as gay

Some famale's make it their hobby, and they don't even play guitar...

Thnx for the welcome! I hung around here as a reader with an other account wich I forgot the login. I would like to post more, but I've some language problems so that makes me a bit quiet

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2007 22:40:49

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: black people (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

In fact it's mainly the white culture that seeks out the exotic to draw on musical inventiveness.

That includes Japanese, right Ron?

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 10 2007 17:38:36

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: black people (in reply to Estevan)

quote:

That includes Japanese, right Ron?

Yeah Steve...especially the Japanese..

cheers,

Ron

_____________________________

A good guitar might be a good guitar
But it takes a woman to break your heart

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 11 2007 14:34:43

gardenshed

Posts: 140
Joined: Jul. 31 2006

RE: black people (in reply to koella)

quote:

ORIGINAL: koella

I don't know any black people playing flamenco, do you ?
Isn't that strange ?

Strange? Not really.
Real flamenco was effectively put in jail by Franco's regime. Spain itself was relatively isolated throughout the period when different styles of music were spreading across the globe via the radio and TV - as in The Swinging Sixties.. And we all know what that led to, and flamenco missed out on it.
Given that there were few black gitanos, it is even less strange that there are few black flamencos. However, given the similarities of the Afro-American experience and the gitano experience, a fusion of the two would be a very exciting thing to see and hear.
Miles Davis had the same idea, of course.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2007 17:53:12