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RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ?
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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 RE: Is this a bad time to tell you a... (in reply to paco picado)
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quote:
Iam speaking from a non aficianados point of view. Yes they all sound differant to me, but to your average audiance, which in most cases is 90% or there about, of the time, even in Tabernas, unless it is an audiance of Flamenco guitarists, in which case it would be a nightmare to play anyway. Then all the modern styles sounds like PDL. I have heard this comment so often from say Jazz guitarists, that such and such a guitarist is great but sounds like PDL, which of course is not true, they have all evolved their styles. But most flamencos play to an audiance that doesent know the differance from your PDL or your Jaun Martins of this world.
Cheers
faIr enough Paco but a guitarist shouldnt develop theyr style acording to a unknowing, uninterested , uninformed audience.
thats another thing that made Paco a king, he took audiences on different trips all the time, forced them to share his vision, he dictated the artist he was and he sold it not the audience.
I mean to those people it dont matter what you do, as long as they get to be seen there. If its not this its another play, same thing to them.
you could play wahtever you want to them , they wont applaud you, they will applaud your Artist Bio written in the program.
if everyone catered for people who dont care about the art form, most of us will not be here because we would be uninspired.
And if JM is not worried about pleasing guitarists just general uninformed audiences (fair enough) but then why is it such a surrprise that he is getting criticised in a guitar forum ? they probably talking very higly of him right now at a midlle class, trendy , culturaly aware wanna be, anual Spanish theme party in Yorkshire.
there are no accidents or coincidences, everyone gets out what they put in.
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Date Nov. 22 2007 6:53:34
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paco picado
Posts: 64
Joined: May 25 2007
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RE: Is this a bad time to tell you a... (in reply to Florian)
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PDL's style was not accepted at the time, meaning 70s 80s, it was partley because of his pedigre and family conections that his style was accepted. I remember a review by D. Porhon, sorry for spelling. He said that Sirroco sounded odd, and out of Compas, which it did to me on first listing, it was only because of his standing, and the fact solo flamenco guitar was stagnent at the time, that it was accepted as the norm. We are all programed to what is acceptible or is hip as far as music is concerned. If you or me or the next doors cat had made an album like Sirroco, before Paco did, it would have been ridiculed, at the time
P.P.
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Date Nov. 22 2007 19:33:49
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Pimientito
Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella
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RE: Is this a bad time to tell you a... (in reply to paco picado)
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Am I hallucinating?
Why is Paco de Lucias Sirocco even being mentioned in a Juan Martin thread? What is the comparison? Let me see....probably most technically challenging, influential and pivotal recording in flamenco history that changed flamenco composition for the next 25 years to ...probably the 3rd best guitar player in the world.
As for what is really flamenco or really art you can make the same comparison between fast food burgers and a 5 star meal at the Savoy. They are both food...they both end up down the drain at the end....but organically grown ingredients, lovingly shred, boiled, strained, reduced, caramelised into subtle and exciting flavours by a master chef, each taste contrasting and complementing the other, artistically presented, satisfying the eyes, taste buds and appetite.
Now that does not mean there isn't a huge market for fast food burgers. In fact, the majority of people might prefer them to some overpriced "toffee nosed" food. The gourmet might even enjoy one as a change now and again from his rich diet.
The point is once your palate has been educated, you instantly know whether something is real, or genuine or artistic. This thread has had so much response for just such a reason. It is the Flamenco gourmets who don't need to be told Sirocco is a work of genius...they already know when they hear it!
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Date Nov. 24 2007 21:37:22
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gato
Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007
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RE: Is this a bad time to tell you a... (in reply to henrym3483)
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What's all of this I read??? It's just more names and more comparisons in the topic of flamenco players. It's all just more talk, and though it's personal opinions and I'm sure it means a lot to you, that's all it is, it's just talk. Go to the flamenco shows and take it in, and listen to the cd's and take it in, and learn from the scores and books and lessons, and take it in; then pick up your guitar and play it. Do that with the same passion that you make comparisons for no real creative reason and you will become a pretty good guitarist or composer yourself, and, that's all that really matters....I don't want to make anyone angry here, but do you ever feel inspired to play and compose on your influences? 'Cause that's all they are, just influences. And there is a great big world out there to create about; Your life, and your surroundings and your relationships with real people. I'm sure that a lot of you can! Use the forum to talk about that process and I'm also sure that you would have a pretty good website too! 
Gary
Peace.....
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Date Nov. 25 2007 7:58:55
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Sorry mind is wandering here - getting into holiday mode ready for Saturday 
