RE: Juan Martin el Rey

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JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to paulw)

Hey Per, am I correct to notice you've put a headstock veneer on the BACK of that guitar head aswell as the front? I thought I was the only one who did that! It covers the scarf joint nicely, I find...

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2007 20:25:47

Taranto

Posts: 213
Joined: Apr. 7 2005

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to paulw) 1 votes

Come on guys. Ok, he his not the best. So what? Is Miguel Ochando the best? What does a "good flamenco player" mean? The one who can play the scales faster? The one who plays hard to play pieces? What has flamenco to do with playing fast or difficult pieces?

Ok, JM is a good businessman and a self-proclaimed figure. So what? Most of those who you refer to as "monster guitarists", that I've met didn't even have an acceptable level of social behavior, but hey who cares? I can still enjoy their music and use their instructional material.

Of course he is no king, but he is a fine musician and teacher.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2007 21:07:06

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to Taranto)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taranto

Come on guys. Ok, he his not the best. So what? Is Miguel Ochando the best? What does a "good flamenco player" mean? The one who can play the scales faster? The one who plays hard to play pieces? What has flamenco to do with playing fast or difficult pieces?

Playing faster ? Difficult pieces ?

If that's the only difference you hear between the two then I'll rest my case.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2007 21:20:11

Taranto

Posts: 213
Joined: Apr. 7 2005

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to koella)

quote:

If that's the only difference you hear between the two then I'll rest my case.

Come on koells, no mystifications please. Tell me what's in your heart? What are the other differences?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2007 21:48:00

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to ecgfc)

quote:

I do believe however that if one is to criticize anyone, be it their technique,style, "purismo" or "apariencia", we ought be certain that we are, perhaps, as good if not better than the one being criticized. I for one, do not do so as doing so will be a sign of my "naivete" (IMHO!).

I dont agree. Many of us here are not as good as Juan. Yet we can critisize him or anyone else, even much better guitarists.

An Example: we have some very good guitarists here like Ricardo, Todd, etc.

If one of them would upload a video which i dont like or which i find could be better, i can say that without feeling bad and they are much much better guitar players than i am.
If i should see a mistake, i can say that (even though i am not able to play like them)

I personally would also critisize Paco if i see a concert where he doesnt play as good as i expect from him as a Maestro.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2007 21:53:41

koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to Taranto)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taranto
Come on koells, no mystifications please. Tell me what's in your heart? What are the other differences?

Well, let me first say I really only know him from this forum. He doesn't mean anything here in Holland. Let alone in Spain.And I read quickly through his method a few years ago. So I don't know him and he doesn't mean anything to me in a flamenco way.

But the video fragments I saw here give me the picture of a cheap spanish-accent-B-actor who stumbles his way through some standard flamenco pieces.

To me he resembles nothing that stands for the flamenco that I humbly are trying to dig a way in.

Of course that doesn't answer your question, but I think most people here know exactly what I mean.

So,

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2007 22:46:00

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to paulw)

quote:

I am a beginner but if I get to the standard where I get so hung up on technique that I can't enjoy a JM performance I will have lost more than I will have gained. Time then to put away the guitar and take up subbuteo fishing.

You are just a beginner, how could you know that for sure??? Sounds like your mind is already made up about your tastes. My advice, especially for beginners, is to keep an open mind. There might be some legit reason why a group of knowleageable aficionados might feel a certain way. But you need to not blindly follow either. Keep an open mind, and let your tastes develop with your knowleadge. No need to dust of the fishing gear just yet!

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2007 22:47:29

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to koella)

quote:

I think most people here know exactly what I mean.

I got into flamenco about 4 years ago and JM never got on my radar. I have none of his books, DVDs, CDs or MP3s. Never heard him, seen him or read about him, except here.

If he was in any way influential I might have caught him in Spain.... Jerez maybe? So.. there you have it. He didn't play Woodstock or rock the Fillimore, set light to a recording studio with a flame gun, drown in his own vomit, give PdL a headache, take a piss in the Generalife or set fire to a baby.

Learning this stuff is not about sticking to what you know - although I still stick to El Capullo (Anders)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2007 23:04:27

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to JBASHORUN) 1 votes

Let me give you guys an honest and simple answer (without any mysthifications)
why many of us make fun out of Juan, Ottmar and Co.

When we compare their

1) Playing skills, musical sence, compositions
2) business success
3) Popularity

to other guitarists like Jesus de Rosario, Diego del Morao, Chicuelo, El Viejin,
Gerardo Nunez, Juan Diego, Pepe Habichuela, Manolo Franco, Nino de Pura, Nino Josele,
Pedro Sierra, and hundreds, yes yes, hundreds of other flamenco guitarists,
then we see some big injustice here going on.

Maybe we are prejudiced, but that is because we are musicians with some years of our life
spent to understand, learn and appreciate Flamenco music.

So the way we look at Flamenco, is a different way than normal listeners (without any
idea about Flamenco) or beginners look at it.

Many of JM and Co. defenders call us jelous and that we begrudge them just because they have
success. You can do that. It is your right.
But it is far from the truth.

We are just sad that other guitarists which would deserve at least ten times more
success and admiritation, dont get it, just because the majority of people are unable
to feel and understand the music they way we do.

And believe me, in 4 or 5 years you will understand what i mean.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2007 23:16:55

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Arash)

[Deleted by Admins]

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2007 23:18:33

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to JBASHORUN)

For me its easy:

What is best: A cold Pripps or JM?

Well, they are not very good either of them, but if you havent got anything else, they´ll do the thing

(Pripps is a swedish beer with little alcohol, famous in Denmark

)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2007 8:49:01

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to Taranto) 1 votes

Taranto he is not a fine musician he is a hack, and after all of his commercial success he does not have the self respect to remedy this. That is probably the most unforgiveable thing about him. He has so little respect for music that he has not done the work that would allow us to forgive him for his good luck in achieving notoriety.

It really is a shame that the media hoodwinks people who have an earnest and heartfelt love of music into accepting the mediocre and being blind to the great.

Your question says it all if you believe that we are judging him in terms of his ability to compete in fast scales then you are blind ...BLIND to the nuances that make music human. Otherwise we could all listen to computers playing midi files.

Think of it like this. There is Jonathan Price reciting shakespeare and then there is Shane Ritchie reciting Shakespeare. Jonathan isn't better because he speaks louder or faster. He is better because his respect for the material has lead him to delve deep into himself to find a way of expressing the MEANING and EMOTION of the text.

This ability lies within us all and any artist with a shread of decency who has success on a public platform would find this if he had any respect for music or for himself.

Listen to Juan and then listen to some early Paco Pena.
Then listen again.

and again

and again

and when you know what we are talking about let us know.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2007 12:00:20

Guest

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to JBASHORUN)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2007 12:38:51

Taranto

Posts: 213
Joined: Apr. 7 2005

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to guitarbuddha)

guitarbudda you are mistaken. We are not talking about religion.

quote:

and when you know what we are talking about let us know.

When you know what you are talking about let us know

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2007 18:31:54

paco picado

Posts: 64
Joined: May 25 2007

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to Taranto)

Jaun Martin is not a bad player. I came back from Spain a few weeks ago, and was routing through some cassettes, and started listing to a radio 3 live perforamnce he did, god knows how long ago. He played a Tarranto por fandango, which sounded quite good, especially as he was performing it live. Its quite an acheivment to get up on stage an produce the goods without nerves or self doubt kickin in, but I agree he is not in the same leage as Ricardo de la Luna (Jluana).
Paco

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2007 19:16:07

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to Taranto)

Yup, now you've got it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2007 1:51:59

Guest

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to JBASHORUN)

to be continued

....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2007 3:57:46

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Im sorry, but I had to do it:

There´s nothing like a cheap kitchen from IKEA

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2007 9:54:44

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to JBASHORUN)

For those with more money or a different taste:

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2007 9:57:31

marc55

Posts: 21
Joined: Jan. 22 2007

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to paulw)

Can't resist but JM speaks perfect English in his videos (which I use) because he grew up and went to school in England - the accent is not what it seems - this is probably not a revelation but seems toi be overlooked! That's Johnny Martin El Rey. Took my daughter to see him at the Barbican and she loved it - we'd banged in to him in our local supermarket and I said hello - he was charming (with a spanish accent!) - so promised my daughter I'd take her. Great books , great business man, good guitarist, great impressionist from 'bri - ton'

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 22 2007 1:14:41

Guest

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to marc55)

let the thred go marc, let it go

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 22 2007 3:50:28

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Great books , great business man, good guitarist, great impressionist

"good comeback"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 22 2007 5:53:09

Guest

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to Per Hallgren)

ha haha hahahaha, lol

i love these threds

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2007 1:47:25

elviselgato

Posts: 5
Joined: Jul. 25 2007

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to paulw)

I simply do not understand why so popular Juan Martin in UK?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2007 15:50:25

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to elviselgato)

Who is Juan Martin?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2007 16:04:43

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to elviselgato)

quote:

I simply do not understand why so popular Juan Martin in UK?

He's so popular for a very simple reason

He performs here regularly, he tours every year and gets all round the country. I'll get the chance to see him locally in December.

PDL might bother to turn up in London occasionally but that's not much use to most people. (The UK is not London)

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Kevin Richards

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2007 16:34:54

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to krichards)

quote:

PDL might bother to turn up in London occasionally but that's not much use to most people. (The UK is not London)

lol, if you CAN'T BE BOTHERED to travel a mere 150 miles to see a man as GREAT as Paco, then you shouldn't DARE to call yourself an aficionado!!!

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2007 16:45:28

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

lol, if you CAN'T BE BOTHERED to travel a mere 150 miles to see a man as GREAT as Paco, then you shouldn't DARE to call yourself an aficionado!!!

250 miles in fact, and needs an overnight stay, too expensive I'm afraid, but thats not the point is it?

JM is popular and PDL isn't and you afficionados don't get it do you?

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Kevin Richards

http://www.facebook.com/#!/kevin.richards.1048554

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2007 17:44:07

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to krichards)

quote:

250 miles in fact, and needs an overnight stay, too expensive I'm afraid, but thats not the point is it?

JM is popular and PDL isn't and you afficionados don't get it do you?

I was joking, amigo... I agree that Paco is very inconsiderate when choosing venues to play at outside of Spain. But thats part of the deal of being "The Man"... he can do exactly what he likes.

There's nothing wrong with JM imo. But I do prefer Paco's music.

Jb

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¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2007 17:50:23

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Juan Martin el Rey (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Arash already answered the reason of JMs success

quote:

We are just sad that other guitarists which would deserve at least ten times more
success and admiritation, dont get it, just because the majority of people are unable
to feel and understand the music they way we do.

Btw a VERY good post of him!

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 27 2007 17:51:23