RE: How the hell....

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: << < 1 [2]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: How the hell.... (in reply to c)

Based on his posts about accompanying dancers, I'm assuming Ricardo is at least as good at accompanying as playing solo...

Concentration is my biggest problem of all. It's so easy to miss the beginning or end of an escobilla if you don't keep your eyes open...

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2007 6:21:47

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: How the hell.... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
I took to a friendly luthier who filled the string holes with Rosewood and redrilled at a proper low angle.

Thanks for the info, i think there is also the method of making a SECOND hole, which is lower? But i only heard of that, never seen.

Actually i bought a guitar now, its called "Jose Rodriguez Negra" anybody heard of him? I didnt play it before though! Gonna see it tomorrow, very curious.

This has been a really damm helpfull thread! Thx to all responses. I think if the dancer profits from a good guitarist and unless she is giving the dance lessons for free, also the guitarist should be payed, even if he is a beginner. Like the dancer is also being payed by the students for being helpfull, same goes for the guitarist.

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2007 9:40:13

buleria

Posts: 88
Joined: Jan. 6 2005

RE: How the hell.... (in reply to John O.)

Hi Florian, only just got back to this thread as I was dancing for a book lauch. (Marcos' "Flamenco Legend: In search of Camaron de la Isla" - highly recommended) I thought your idea was great and the good news is I have struggled to think of things that frustrate me about guitarists! Maybe ultimately, it's this:

Guitarists who has spent years practising complicated falsettas in total isolaton from the cante and dance and then get very put out when you say they are not usable in a regular class situation. (Sometimes bacause they are not helping the students and sometimes because they are NOT IN COMPAS and they really need to go backwards and learn that first)

And Deniz, I hate to sound mean but I still don't agree that a beginner guitarist should automatically expect payment. It really does depend on individual situations. What about this one : A really excellent guitarist was accompanying a class and suddenly two or three other guitarists turned up too. What they really wanted was a free lesson with him and when he said that they were quite welcome to play along but would need to pay for a lesson prior to the class so he could explain a lot of the things they needed to know - they all disappeared!

Oh, and while I'm rambling on, I do have a problem with guitarists (and dancers) who say they 'don't like the cante'. I think they are weird!

Karenanne (or Frank!)

PS Talking through intro's - agreed - have a beer during their silencio!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2007 15:55:29

Mark2

Posts: 1868
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: How the hell.... (in reply to c)

quote:

ORIGINAL: c

I find Guitarists have to pull back and be what the dancers really need.....
even just playing for dance means playing subdued
from what solo guitar can be
But after saying that...... concentration ...is so important
Flamenco can sound so cool but for it to be useable in dance class
Simple and precise is so more important.........

right?

c

I never considered playing for dance to be subdued or pulled back-I aways looked at it as, in part, needing to be able to play harder/louder/faster than playing solo. And tighter. I agree about the precise part. I think that power you develop while playing for dance is missing from a lot of solo players who don't. In fact, it's really hard for some people to switch between the two in that you could be totally warmed up and playing well for dance, but cold for solo playing. It's a different kind of playing, with the dance playing needing to be more forceful at times while the solo player needs to be more musical, IMO. The solo guy is the whole experience. The dance guy is accenuating the dance. I think that some of the things you need to play for dance could be over the top if placed in a solo.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2007 16:35:46

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: How the hell.... (in reply to John O.)

Karen, i was referring to guitarrists who are useful/helpful for the class, not to guitarist who want a free lesson. And no you dont sound mean.
Just as you are helpful for your students. Same principle for the guitarist. Florian already summed it up in a way: they used me as much as i used them.

Hey i am crazy for falsettas!

But i also try to be in compas. Flamenco is both, and i enjoy both. You cannot isolate one from another, ok maybe for libre palos you can... i just mean: its not always black and white with guitarrists as it is not with "falsettas vs. dance accomp."

Oh and i hate cante! LOL, just kidding. But i dont like most of the jondo. I do like every cante on Jesus De Rosarios CDs though. I like it when they sing, and not scream.

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2007 16:54:38

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: How the hell.... (in reply to buleria)

quote:

Guitarists who has spent years practising complicated falsettas in total isolaton from the cante and dance

My personal experience. After 7-8 years of playing Paco de Lucia I needed well over a year of only being able to strum chords before my compas got comfortable. After a while the instructor complained because I was only playing chords and not being inspiring enough. Eventually it has to come together to a certain degree.

_____________________________

Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2007 17:41:25

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How the hell.... (in reply to c)

quote:

Ricardo
Do you teach guitar accompany in a dance class?
I know THAT YOU ARE A FANTASTIC GUITARIST
but in a dance class thats far from important
I find Guitarists have to pull back and be what the dancers really need.....
even just playing for dance means playing subdued
from what solo guitar can be
But after saying that...... concentration ...is so important
Flamenco can sound so cool but for it to be useable in dance class
Simple and precise is so more important.........

right?

c

Sometimes I have students who want to accompany, or I feel have good enough compas. But my feeling about teaching/learning accompaniment is this: You can't learn to accompany by following the lead guitarist. You have to do it by yourself.

Now I will coach the guitarist, give him things that I might play, but honestly, the student will get it faster by doing his own stuff, with his focus on the dancers not the guitar teacher. Like I said, assuming the student has rhythm, and knows how to play some falsetas in compas, and knows some of the traditional and typical escobilla type things. The rest is about "structure" which he/she will pick up by doing it and making mistakes.

Same goes for cante accompaniment. Much easier with a live singer rather than with a guitar teacher or playing along with tomatito on CD. I learned a lot early on with dancers that would sing or hum out the letra sections of the dance. Getting with a real cantaor I at least had blue prints from what I learned from the dance teachers humming.

About dumbing down the music for accompaniment. True, it can happen. But it depends on the level of the dancer. I can play some rather complex synchopated things for some dancers, if they are really good at listening. We can be tight with tons of contras and synchopation. Other dancers are not so used to crazy rhythms, so I need to mark the beat very clear. That could mean I play simpler music, but honestly, I have as much fun playing ON the beat as OFF the beat.

Main thing for me is everyone is tight and feeling things together. I don't like rushing or dragging unless it is deliberate. I don't like to play 4's against a dancer's 3's, I like things to fit together. In some cases the dancer might be really out of control, and all I can do is bang out chords really hard to hold it together. In anycase, you make these judgements based on the level of the dancer you are working with, and do the best job you can at making things work out.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2007 17:54:50

buleria

Posts: 88
Joined: Jan. 6 2005

RE: How the hell.... (in reply to John O.)

I am in total agreement with everything Ricardo says. Isn't this a lovely, sharing, understanding forum!!!! Well, until the next 'let's throw the teddies out the pram' thread comes along.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2007 18:08:02