Americans bringing democracy to Iraq!

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Off Topic >>

Page: [1] 2 3 > >>

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

Americans bringing democracy to Iraq!

Yes , these are the american soldiers who call us iranians fanatics and terrorists and who want to bring democracy to our country like they did in Iraq !!!

.......just look how long the kid is running for the water and at the end , the soldier doesnt even give it to him

Sorry for posting this

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 12:47:08

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

I dont wanna get into polotics or weather america has any bussines there or not because i am not up to date with whats going on latley and between the bull propaganda every countrys media feeds you i dont know what to belive anymore.

I know how u feel about the clip but to be fair, u cant judge a hole country on some wa*kers( i mean thats what they are 18 - 19 years old probably) every country has them.
the problem is that they are not aware that they are wa*kers and they never will be because people dont tell em, or mibe they sorround themselfs with other wa*kers in which case its hard to tell, just seems like normal behviour.
If everyone of us took one wa*ker aside in our own country and told him he is a wan*ker (because noone wants to be one, some just accidentaly end up there) the world would be a better place and people alot nicer to eachoder. so dont ignore this help a wa*ker TODAY

ps. did i see a corpse in the street half way trough the video ?

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 13:16:59

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

I don't know what to say.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 13:20:17

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

Read Machiavelli's the Prince. It contains excellent advice on how to interpret the actions of states and leaders, ignore what they say and look at what is actually achieved. The contemporary phrase is ' follow the money'.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 14:28:32

Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Jim Opfer)

Disgusting. No wonder why the majority of the world hates America and us Americans.

THE REAL WAR TO BE FOUGHT IS IN AFRICA!!!!!!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 14:29:41

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

Read Machiavelli's the Prince. It contains excellent advice on how to interpret the actions of states and leaders, ignore what they say and look at what is actually achieved. The contemporary phrase is ' follow the money'.

It also says that it is "safer to be FEARED than LOVED" so I'm not sure what your point is. No offence to anyone, but IMO there are very few innocent parties these days, and from what I've seen most people give as good as they get.

I'm not the kinda guy to deny a thirsty kid water, but IMO 99% of governments are corrupt/power-hungry/aggressive/hypocritical/oppressive/irrational (delete as applicable). and Eastern governments are in the same boat as Western ones as far as I'm concerned.

Jb

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 14:57:58

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

All suffer in any war and you can't expect people straight out of high school who are trained to kill to not turn evil in certain ways. There's so such thing as a "clean war", torture is a normal thing in any war. War breaking out between "civilized" cultures always shows so wonderfully how rediculously susceptible humans are to hate. Give an ape a gun, religion and national pride - no difference...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 15:02:22

Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

I'm not the kinda guy to deny a thirsty kid water, but IMO 99% of governments are corrupt/power-hungry/aggressive/hypocritical/oppressive/irrational (delete as applicable). and Eastern governments are in the same boat as Western ones as far as I'm concerned.

Really, name one eastern government that has troops on foreign soil. Name a eastern country that is trying to impose their ideologies on America.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 15:07:23

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Rain)

[deleted]

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 15:45:24

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Rain)

[deleted]

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 15:59:12

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

First of all let me clear this: i am not saying that all americans are like this. And i dont hate americans.
My uncles wife is american and i like her very much. Just to give an example.

I am just astonished how such a stupid cowboy Mr. Bush and his Father can become the president of such a big country with so much positive potential.
So why ellecting this f*** familly again and again ??

But it seams that in USA everything is possible.
I mean if a Terminator can become a Governour of a state just because of his popularity in hollywood films...Well.........

quote:

Iran gives almost as good as it gets and you know it! when its not provoking the the West with its nuclear programs, its taking British soldiers as hostages. I don't support either government, but lets admit the truth- NEITHER the British, American OR Iranian governments lose any sleep over the misfortunes of their potential enemies.

Like I said, its not a matter of "The Big Evil west" versus the "Poor Innnocent East"... its politics, and NO-ONE is doing humankind any favours, they're pretty much all looking out for Number One, and at the expense of peace.

James excuse me but I am astonished why nearly every american and english people that i talked to and discussed about politics, is so angry and scared
when our country is fighting for its legitime right to have nuclear power as an energy resource just like all other countries like US, Israil, England, Pakistan, India, etc (because our Oil reserves are decreasing and in some few
years we dont have this energy resource anymore).
And we have huge reserves of Uranium in our country. So why dont use them ?
Shall we be dependent on other countries and buy our energy from them in the future? Why ? This is our right and it is not a provocation!
And hey! We are talking about nuclear energy and not weapons!!! So many people talk about this as if they are both the same which they are not!!

And another point James:

you can not compare Bushs behaviour to any other regime in the world.
Just read about what US regimes and CIA did to other countries in the past 50 years!
I dont know any other country that did such a harm except Hitler in the second world war.
I remember the words "weapons of mass destruction" --it was on TV everyday as Bush was preaparing the attack on iraq.
And what did they find in Iraq???? NOTHING! some cheap guns from Russia and a Saddam hiding in a hole!

And why nobody mentions the half a million killed innocent civilists (men, woman, children) in Iraq after USA attacked Iraq without any proof!
What the f uck had Bin laden to do with Iraq ??

Sure Saddam Hussein was an ****, no doubt, but who gives Bush the right to attack a country and destroy it just because of that?

I mean, just imagine. Iran would say: hey we dont like Putin , he is a dictator. So lets attack Russia!!

look at Iraq today!!
Everything is destroyed! No Water, No energy! No food! Children suffering!and and and......

Is this the so called "export of democracy?"

You should know that and not believe everything you see on BBC or CNN!

By the way did you know that at that time Saddam was USA regimes best friend ? USA regime used to help Saddam with billions of Dollars and billion tons of weapons in the war against Iran at that time !!)
Why nobody mentions these facts today??
And these are facts and no strories. You can have the proof of that.

Come on......ITS ALL ABOUT OIL! Controling the oil fields and for strategic reasons and of course weopon industry making the Bushs richer and richer!
Thats it! Nobody is scared from Irans nuclear programme! thats a joke!

Sick World! Really.....

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 16:05:21

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

[deleted]

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 16:22:21

Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

I agree with you 100% Bikhiyal. Every word.

Shall we be dependent on other countries and buy our energy from them in the future? Why ? This is our right and it is not a provocation!

The American government would like nothing more. GIVE US YOUR MONEY AND WE WONT KILL YOU. I know it's a bit harsh, but it is what it is.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

7 apples for the USA 1 apple for you.

How do you like them apples

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 16:26:07

Mark2

Posts: 1868
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

I think many people in the US and elsewhere are concernened about Iran based on the words of Iran's president and the recent hostage taking of the Brits. THe US has enough crap going on without needing to get into a beef with Iran, IMO. None of that excuses Bush's actions.

But I think it comes down to 9/11
The day that happened I said to myself that a lot of Middle easterners are going to die because of it. We had the first trade center bombing and didn't start a war, but no way anyone's going to kill 3 thousand americans and not have somebody, anybody remotely related, pay a heavy price. And I believe that if something like that happens again, there will be even more death, no matter who's in the White House. I'd hate to see Hilary get pissed.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 16:27:59

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

I see where you're coming from Mark2. But hopefully you can see what I mean about there being no winners in any war, only losers. I think every country has the right to defend itself from attack (within reason) and its a cause I have sympathised with in the past. But as I was reminded not so long ago, more than 3,000 people have died in the Middle East since 9/11. I won't belittle America's right to get its "justice" though.

BTW, did anyone see Adam Curtis' documentary "The Trap" recently... it was quite enlightening!

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 16:36:02

Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

War begets War! It solves nothing. But it makes $$$
There are no ties between 9/11 and Iraq. If I may remind you all, the war started because our government lied and said that Iraq had CHEMICAL WEAPANS, once no traces of them were found, it turned to OPERATION FREE IRAQ.

As far as the british soldiers are concerned, I do feel for them, but why is the word HOSTAGE being used, and not the word DETAINED--THINK ABOUT IT.
Are the many Moslem's at Guantanamo bay HOSTAGES or are they being detained.
DID THE BRITISH SOLDIERS HAVE A LEGAL RIGHT TO BE WHERE THEY WERE.
NO!!! Would the American government have reacted the same as the IRANIAN government YES!

Guys, lets move away from this topic and get back to what we love FLAMENCO.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 16:58:07

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

Some people advocate just turning it into a big glass parking lot, and
punching boreholes through to access the oil. :)

Other's would suggest, if you leave them alone, they'll leave you alone.

Seems to me that both arguments are as right as they are wrong.

So I would suggest, the argument is unwinnable, so better to utilize
typing time explaining a better way to play guitar.

Thats' my opinion based on spending a big part of my impressionable Youth in
Lebanon in 1982.

Regards,
Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 17:13:29

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Rain)

[deleted]

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 17:14:01

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

James,

first of all, the soldiers are NOT hostages.
They are ARRESTED soldiers (thats a big difference) because of straying into iranian territorial waters.
( this has been proved today with drawings and plans, etc.)
So there was no illegal action from iranian side.

UK or other western countries would do the same if as iranian ship would be in territory.

And note followings: the iranian foreign minister said today that it could have been a mistake from the english side and that in that case it is no problem and it will be solved and all the soldiers will be released.
So he was kind of cooling down the situation.

And look now what Blairs answer was: 48 hours Ultimatum!
The same was done by Bush before the Iraq-war. 48 hours Ultimatum! Same words! do you remember?

Now who is provocating whom here james? be honest.....

On your other comment i 100% agree: there is no winner in this fiasco.

But the question is how to behave for such countries like iran, or some other countries in that region after so many years of blatant injustice.

We were called Axis of Evil ! You should ask yourself who the real Evil is here!

Sure , our president is not a nice guy, but this harsh behaviour is the result of years of an arrogant behaviour from many western countries.

You say: you dont care for the saddam issue. well you should.
Because thats the best example which shows what its all about.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 17:23:47

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Ok lets go back to Flamenco ;-)

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 17:26:40

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

Have I posted my picture of a Terrapin in this thread yet? If not, I shall do so now!

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 17:28:03

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

No wait! Here's a new one! Its entitled: "Blonde Chick With A Cute Pussy"!!!

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 17:32:19

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

cute pics, james

and let me apologize for making this thread. Although it is in the off topic section, here is not a forum for discussing such things.
My fault. sorry..... but as i saw the video i was a bit of emotional.

What we guitarists do is the best answer to all these f.... politicians.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 17:43:36

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

the wan*ker in me says just say one more thing

...

I am not saying anyone is wrong or right but if Iran or Iraq or any country for that matter had the same power as the US dont for a second think they wouldnt do the same.

its like a game of risk if u take the emotions out of it, to the victor belong the spoils, the strong always ride the weak.

its not nice or fair but u should be used to it by now 2000 years of history should have gotten u used to it by now, nothings changed we just using guns with buttons now and have alot more tv cameras around.

the nicest countryes are the once who dont have enough power to be "bad " countries.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 21:04:27

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

i am not saying anyone is wrong or right but if Iran or Iraq or any country for that matter had the same power as the US dont for a second think they wouldnt do the same.
the nicest countryes are the once who dont have enough power to be "bad " countries.

this is absolutely nonsence!
So according to your theory we human beeings are all killers.
The difference is just that the killer who killed someone had a gun or a knife in his hand in that moment and the rest of us who dont kill people dont because we dont have the gun....

Sorry but there are many countries with great millitary power who does not attack other countries just because they could!

Darwins Theory might apply in many cases but not in this case!

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 21:28:18

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

Whatever... I nee to see some boxing in TV now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 21:35:23

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Doitsujin)

This was and will be my last OFF TOPIC political comment, i promise

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 21:38:06

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

quote:

So according to your theory we human beeings are all killers.

Reminds me of that Adam Curtis "The Trap" Documentary. Its called "Game Theory" and yes, apparently the theory goes that all humans ultimately have selfish interests and look out for themselves at the expense of others. we were led (in the docu) to believe that Tony Blair based some of his decisions on this theory being true, and with negative consequences. I do wish they would bring that out on DVD... I can't have been the ONLY one to see it, can I?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_%28television_documentary_series%29

Jb

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 21:49:18

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to JBASHORUN)

JBash,

That is a great photo. How do you get your nails so nice

Seriously though. Is this yours? I need to know more about these as my son wants one but I know nothing about them. I tell him he should want a flamenco guitar but no! he wants a Terrapin.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 3 2007 22:17:30

Posts: 26
Joined: Aug. 25 2006

RE: Americans bringing democracy to ... (in reply to Arash)

my 2 cents...

I think it's a bit dodgy that a country that relies on nuclear power would try to prevent another country from being able to use the same technology. If they want to stop the use of nuclear technology they should look at themselves first.

Everyone's an **** when they have enough power.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 4 2007 3:03:20